What Does It Take To Tour Internationally?

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Are you not exhausted at this point? Are you not absolutely shattered and exhausted right now?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Can you not see the bags underneath my eyes, bro? We love playing news like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Stuck, welcome to uh another episode of Sludge Underground. I have got a special guest with me today, all the way from Cape Town. Lads, introduce yourself, who you are, and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Okay, my name is Gareth. I play guitar, I do vocals for the for the band. Um, and yeah, I try and run the management facets of the band, like handle all the bookings and all that other kind of nonsense. But uh, but yeah, that's pretty much it. Quick and easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah, what's up? Lyle from the Mamba Tels. I play bass, I do some backup vocals. Uh hopefully our drummer Carl will join us soon, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Drummers are always late, bro. Even at rehearsals, what the hell? It's like you you practice at seven, we that hoppers six, this one gets at the hoppers eight, like you know what I mean. We've cycled through a few, and all of them are fucking late always, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Like, and it's like the irony is not lost upon me that it's the person in the band that's supposed to be keeping time, and but when it comes to anything else, they're like fucking the most unreliable, like off-time people. It's actually one of the greatest aspects of life. Like, you you gotta you gotta love it, and yeah, you guys have been doing a crazy amount, like, especially not just in Cape Town, you boys have been incredibly busy. You have been playing all over South Africa, you have recently also been playing all over the world, and you've also been working on new music. Are you not exhausted at this point? Are you not absolutely shattered and exhausted right now?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Can you not see the bags underneath my eyes, bro? We love playing music then.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

No, bro. I reckon, I reckon to be honest, uh, I think the scene uh right now in South Africa is so fast and it's so furious that uh you know there's no real time to it depends on what you want uh from this. This is a conversation that we have a lot is uh, you know, what is your ambition when you're making music? You know, is it a hobby or is it something that you want to take further than just a hobby? And I think that dictates how fast and how much work you're going to put into a project at the end at the end of the day. So, yeah, bro, like we we work. I think everything is so fast that if you don't keep on working, if you don't keep on pushing, uh you will just become you know another band, which we definitely don't want. Like, I mean, we believe in our music, we think that what we have is special, and I think we pride ourselves heavily on our work ethic and how hard uh we work and how much time and effort we put into this project. And I think that's one of the reasons why we manage to do what we we are currently doing, you know. So being tired is chill, bro. It's all a labor of love at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

I mean, like, I mean, it's definitely as as far as I know, like it's it's from my perspective, it's something we love doing. So, I mean, you're busy, but it's like something that's giving you energy, you know, like getting to play to new people, getting to record new music, trying new stuff, play different places. That's you know, it seems busy, but you're enjoying it. So it's definitely not something that's taking away energy.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

It's the only thing that sucks, which I think everybody will agree uh to is you know, you put in all this effort and you promote for months on end and you you try and be the most prepared that you can be. Then you get on stage for 30 minutes and it's all done, bro. Just like that. So you always have to try and like remind yourselves, guys, let's go up there and really enjoy ourselves. But even in that spur of trying to be on stage and just like taking in the moment, it still just goes by like this, right? So maybe there's actually no time to be tired. That's just how it is.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

I I 100% agree with like the the aspect of you know how you're approaching it, where it's what do you want out of this? But we unfortunately live in like a landscape of music and just content creation at this point that it's very easy to become very quickly irrelevant. It's people's focus shifts so quickly these days with you know the advent of uh social media and especially short form content. It's it really is like a consistent work to stay in the public eye and to stay relevant, which can like uh detract from the the value of making music. I feel like sometimes it's I think a lot of people end up making music specifically to try and stay relevant instead of trying to convey an actual message, which you finding that balance can be really fucking hard.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Bro, I'm gonna tell you a crazy story here quickly. Just coming off one of what you said over there, you spoke about like in the public's eye. Um, so we haven't had a proper conversation yet with the new music of what will be released as signals. We've had a quick conversation, but one of the singles that I know, I don't know when it will come out, but one of the singles is a song called Weight of Gold. And the very first lyrics that I'm hitting over there, it says in the public's eye. You know, you'll finally realize it didn't mean a thing, it left you empty within. It's all about this whole like how fucking crazy shit is, bro. Like, uh, people are so con they're so obsessed with what people are gonna think. Are they still relevant? Like, I mean, that's something that I maybe realized a little bit later on. The older I got as a as an individual, and the longer I've been in the scene is that I started like really just wanting to do something that I enjoy, not like constantly worrying about holy fuck, we're not doing enough. Like, you know, like we have to keep on doing this and that, and we have to make music like this that's gonna speak to this kind of like you know, seeing it's got nothing to do with that. And that's that song is all about like how you can be so blinded by like what you've been I don't use the term condition, but like you've been taught a specific thing, which I think that takes so much of the joy of being a musician away from you. So I think that's that's it's so funny. So, like those are the opening lyrics, is exactly what we're talking about right now. So, again, like the I mean, we're not talking about the new album yet, but the new album is very, very uh oriented around that whole like concept of what we've come to understand is like being normal, but it's it's not at all, like you know.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

That's actually what what a wild like coincidence in terms of phrasing, like actually fucking you know, we'd been speaking a little bit before this. I didn't fucking expect to nail that one on the head. Recording is currently a big deal. You were saying earlier before we started recording that it's been a while since you've released music, it's been about two years, and you've recently just finished up recording your if I'm not mistaken, is your new album. And obviously, the the progress with that. You boys have obviously been busy for the last two years. It's not like you've been sitting around doing nothing. How are you feeling about the the new album? What do you what would you like to tell people about it?

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, man, I just very, very excited about the music that we're we're gonna be putting out. I think like truly, I think everyone says this every single time, but I think it's definitely some of the best and most interesting and most diverse music that we're gonna be having put out to date. Um and really like taking our time, we want to just make the music that we want to release for our own sake, and we think that people are really gonna enjoy what we're putting out there. Um so it's been a really fun process, you know. Like we have we are focusing on just doing maybe maybe splitting it up and releasing it into two different batches, so maybe doing an EP and an EP, which together could be an album. So we focused on you know the first bit now, and we've got that done at Dean. Um yeah, very exciting. Hopefully, we're gonna finish up some Vox and some guitars this week, maybe, or in the next few weeks, and then maybe we can get on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I don't know, Gareth, do you have anything else you want to say? That was the thing. So we've got about 14 new songs that we we want to put on the album, but uh in this like day and age again, like we're talking about content and trying to stretch out your release because I feel at you know, like as and it's not about being relevant, it's about making the most of the the music that you've got, uh making the most of the media uh you know that you've got at your disposal. So, you know, we've gone into studio instead of going in and bashing out 14 tracks, we've done six, right? This this is realistic, you know, for us to make sure that the drums are properly tracked, bass goes down, guitars get down, we're going in, we're gonna do vocals now, then that's six tracks, bro. So we can stagger that, we can release a brand new track from an EP for six months. And during that six months period, hopefully we'll be in a position where we go in and we can record the rest of the album. So you can be one long release, and then you can boom, all of a sudden, you know, yeah, that's the album, we released it. Uh, and the idea is that we we definitely want to try and give you something physical where you can listen to the album before it's actually released online. So we really want to uh make this a special release, like Lala was saying, uh, you know, every single time we always have this conversation oh, this is the best music that we've ever written or whatever. But every year that you spend in the scene and all the work that you put in, the conversations that you have and the shows that you play, it all influences you, and you all grow you all end up growing as not as individuals but as a unit and as a band, and naturally the music that you're gonna make is gonna be more superior or more intricate and different and more like layered uh versus the stuff that you've put out before. And I think this is a very like serious uh version of the band that's coming out now, and like it's showing you that we're not just run straight tackle hard kind of stuff. Like, I mean, we do think about things and we want this to be pretty and we want it to be intricate, we want you to actually think about it, like sit there and be like, damn, I mean, that piece of music makes sense. That's not even listening to lyrics, that's just actually feeling and understanding what it is that we're trying to do with our instruments, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

There's a lot of discourse at the moment, especially around about like the death of albums, you know. Like a lot of people state that you know, it's so easy these days to just hit a playlist, listen to a single from a band, Fire and Forget. And like for me personally, I might just be because I am a fucking millennial, I did grow up listening to CDs, I did grow up with physical media, and I still have what I like to call comfort albums, you know, albums that tell a story or like a specific sequence of songs and how all those songs relate to each other. There's something just really intrinsically valuable about that to me. And I I personally feel like that needs to make a comeback. But again, it comes back down to how people are writing songs, they're writing songs for that single release, for those segmented, like staggered releases. There isn't like really so much of one consistent story being told. Well, there's still artists doing this, but it kind of falls to the wayside because of how just as you said earlier, fast and the fairious it goes. But I really like the concept of that you're doing physical media for it. That's fucking sick. Please, please tell me more about that. Like what's kind of the plan that you guys have for the physical media.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

The thing is, is that doing uh like physical media, it is very, you know, it's a tricky thing to do because first of all, it normally does cost you quite a bit, and the chances of people not buying uh the stuff is this or there, you know, so you can make a loss. However, the thing is now, especially in Europe, it seems like you know, we went out with merchandise, but we chose not to take any like physical meat, like music with us, where the one thing that is consistently being requested from us is have you got you know CDs, have you got vinyls? So people, it's like that they don't mind buying a shirt and a hat, but they actually want to physically buy your music, it seems. Uh so and that's not from online, they want to have something like they want to hold it, you know, even if they're not even gonna play it, they they bought your music, which is like I believe, I guess they feel that's like the best way to support a band, you know. So I love having something physical. I don't know if it's because maybe we a little bit slightly more old school, I don't even know if that term is irrelevant, but you know, like for me, I like to have something I want to see, something that we've put together, a lot of thought because whenever I look at it, it might be different. When I look at it, I'm going, I remember when we had the conversation, or like we had an argument about this, and that artwork is how we did it. So it's so much more than just something that is you can hold, it's so special, bro. Um, so so, in terms of uh the actual physical media that we want to do, we haven't yet properly decided what we're gonna do, but there will be something physical, whether it be tape, vinyl, or CD, there's definitely gonna be something that you can get your hands on for sure. That's so sick.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

I think having physical media allows us, to the extent that we're artists, and I think we all view ourselves that way, to express ourselves in a like an additional um dimension with respect to the music. You know, you can do artwork, and I think when we were younger, you'd get the CD or the record, and you could look at the pictures and the way in which the band laid out some of the images and the lyrics, and it would add an entirely extra dimension to the experience. You know, like the original Black Sabbath album, you can hear that rain, and you can be sitting there looking at that scary image on the front of their album, and it just adds something to your experience. So I think physical media is is really something that's been missing in the past few years. So we're keen to do that, um, whatever form it ultimately may take. But you know, I would be keen to do vinyl just because then you get to do a really big picture. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

You can have this big like fucking A0 post of the mammoths on your wall.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Exactly, man. That's dope. Nothing like a vineyard.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

But you know, I think I think uh also just touching on Lau's point, I think we were all uh very fortunate to to start our journeys in this like whole musical world when that was a big thing, where releasing something physical was a big thing because there was always this hype of of like going and printing CDs and deciding what the artwork is gonna be and like like showing your friends a CD and everyone's like, noise, they look so fucking sick, bro. Like, you know, it's it's that hype, and like you've put extra, like you know, to put your music online it's fucking easy, bro. Everybody can do it, like you know, but to go and do the work behind something physical, it's like a different process, it's it adds a different layer of of appreciation into your own art. So I think we're very fortunate of where we started out, and I think we we are we love that that facet of it, so we're definitely keen to reinvest in that that area.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

And to like tack on what you're saying, you know, like we view ourselves as artists, not content creators. We're not just making a song as content to be consumed by somebody, you know. We're proud of the music and we want to build something, you know. So you make the song, you make artwork, you put it all together, and that's this artistic product that you've produced.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

You know, especially in recent months, more so than ever, we've had that huge contention about what digital ownership actually is. Uh, you know, there's that obvious like let's be honest, like digital having digital platforms like Spotify, like YouTube music, like Apple Music, those have opened the doors to artists to reach audiences they otherwise would never have reached. Like we cannot kind kind of understate the value and the impact and the game changer that was. I don't know what more and more with like the greed of corporations, we're running into the issue of what is it what does it mean to actually own something? What does it what does digital ownership actually mean? And then there's obviously the whole thing happening with Sony at the moment and the fucking blindsiding statement that they made about with the the new PlayStation and that no physical media, no physical discs are going to be a thing anymore, and then that essentially that can be taken away from you at any point. I'm sorry, but that to me doesn't equal ownership. Yeah, wow. I'm gonna use this as an example. There was an artist that I really like from Mpangeni, his name is Lungelo Manzi, and one day he decided that he didn't quite like how a certain album of his reflected on his image anymore, and he removed it. That happened to be my favorite album by this man. Okay, and it's gone. I I can't listen to that again. I mean, I obviously never bought any physical media, I never owned it. But that is now a piece of like that musical history, and musical history that was important to me specifically, that I can now not get anywhere else. Yeah. That's why I think for the for archival purposes, for beyond just the that's sick, that's cool, that's also part of an artistic expression, just for the sake of archiving, I have CDs here from like Gangsterdam, um, from like way back in the day. Um I wish I had collected more CDs in that era, like especially like the late 2010s, where that was the main way, you know, with it was either SoundCloud or CD or ticks or a like uh a campus radio station. That was how people heard your music.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

That's that's also why I think uh Bandcamp as a platform is great because you purchase the the music directly, you download those tracks, they're on your you with them. You so I still see that even though it's still digital, you actually physically own the music now. Like, you know, you've got it, they're not gonna be able to take it away from you, you know. Like uh Spotify and all that other kind of stuff, I mean it's great. Um, you know, that it makes you an international artist, it really does. Somebody asked me the other day, like, do you consider my amateurs as like an international artist? Well, I said, you know, thanks to Apple Music and Deezer and Spotify. I mean, it is because everybody has access to our music. It's not as if they're looking for us, but we can be found like abroad, like where if before we were just actually uh relying on physical stuff, it would be very um, you know, like closed off. We would be super restricted. So I think there are positives, but I think right now the negatives definitely outshine what digital media is is has done to to music, you know?

SPEAKER_03 18:35

No, absolutely. Like it's it's a it's a huge like point of debate because I don't there's a lot of people who don't necessarily consider these things, who don't necessarily care about them, and who don't see it as that big of a deal. But I still feel like it's a case of you won't think it's that big of a deal unless something you love that you believe you own is taken away from you. Okay, or something that you thought you owned. Like I think that's there's a very much a difference between a personal like experience and then understanding kind of what's happening here. Yeah. That got uh very like into the um the nitty gritty of what's going on with uh of a deeply like against like corporate greed at the moment. I find that every year I get older, I get more and more radicalized to like fucking eat the rich or some shit.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, you don't you also don't think about it because like you know, it's again everything moves so fast, and all of a sudden all these platforms are available, the conveniences there, everything is great, but you don't really see what it's doing, you know, and what is taken away. But you also don't have a choice. I mean, yeah, exactly, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

As an artist, you can't just entirely push back unless you're already huge, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Like we're not King Gizzard, we can't just be like if we're gonna take our music off Spotify, nobody's gonna give a shit. Nobody Yeah, we're like, what? Who the fuck are the mammoths?

SPEAKER_03 19:55

You know, it's like it's it sounds so dick, it's like all 50 of your lessons are going to be devastated.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

In this line of talking, you know, you guys recently had a tour overseas, and looking at like some of the the dates, I mean you guys played it was let's have a look here. It was like it is this where where did you guys tour overseas to? Because you it looks like a couple of countries. Is this it was Tokyo one of them, or is there a place called Tokyo in Lisbon? Like, like please, please like can I just not read? Do I have the media literacy of a newborn?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

So so we played, let me just like list the countries. We played shows in Portugal, then we went up to Belgium, we played in the Netherlands, we played Italy. Uh Tokyo Bar is just like a very famous bar in Lisbon, in Portugal. Um, so that was the first show we played when we when we arrived in Europe. So we played Lisbon, we went up to Porto, which is like in the north of Portugal, and we went to a smaller town, Braga, also in Portugal. So we played three shows in Portugal. Then we went up to Belgium, we played a very sick show in Ghent, a very beautiful city. Um, and the very cool venue. Like, as far as I understand, like, you know, obviously I'm not steeped in the deep traditions of the Belgian music scene, but Upsnis, you know, has quite a lot of heritage, Gareth, if I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, yeah, sure. So it's one of those venues that a lot of like uh bands have really like kind of found their feet, or that was like kind of what spring boarded them into the the public eye, you know. So it was great to play the kind of venue and you know experience the hospitality and speak to the people and yeah, Belgium was really cool. I I I regret not spending more time in in uh the country, but you know, there's always next year.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Tell me a bit more about like those those experiences in in in Europe, like for instance, Portugal, because I don't really hear of many guys going to to like for example Portugal or just like highlight some of like your favorite experiences and within those those those motherfucker, if I could get a decent sentence out, that would be so great. Have you ever had a dreams that that you um you had you'll Okay, like just highlight some of your favorite experiences within that tour.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah, I mean Portugal is a is a very like it's an amazing country. Like if you could just even for its own sake to just go to Portugal, I think it's always a great experience. Uh the people are very welcoming, both or almost every band we played with there was incredibly welcoming, especially a band we played with um in Portugal, Tree Wax, a very sick band. You guys should definitely check them out. Some sick like Midwestern emo vibes. But you know, like they would take time off like. From their lives and to just show us around their city. They're very proud of their city. Took us to like a Christmas, well, I mean not Christmas, but like sort of mid-June festival where there was all kinds of different food on display, you know, like local stuff, showing us around, taking us to try the different things, showing us the like boardwalk where Primavera Sound, which is like a massive music festival that happens in Portugal, letting us like walk around the festival grounds and just sort of like welcoming us to their city. Um, so I thought that was like a very special experience. So we got like an insider view of Portugal.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Shout out TrueWorks! Yeah, no, uh, but Portugal was really, it was uh very similar to South Africa in terms of yeah, you know, how like the hospitality and how friendly they were and the food and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, Portugal was sick.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Um then we as Gareth was saying earlier, like we went to Belgium, we arrived on a rainy night, it was very late, so we didn't really get to see much. And it was cold as fuck, yeah. There was like a cold snap when we were there. We played the show and then we kind of had to move on. Um, we spent more time in the Netherlands, uh, and that was sick. Like playing in the Hague Sniper Festival is like the best festival I've ever been to in my life, man. There was just like so many amazing bands, and like the way it's laid out in the city, it's like south by southwest, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah, and our show was sick as fuck. We had a good show, and it's packed, it was fucking awesome, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Um, so I think for me, like that that festival was uh was a highlight, getting to see like Gurias, Knives, Fat Brain. There was just so many, like so many amazing bands, and like you can just walk around to sit the sort of market square of of The Hague, and there's the venues all over the place. So you're just seeing all the festival goers, you're watching this band at this venue, go to a different venue, watch another band. You can pick like I want maybe something more high energy, something a bit low energy. Everyone's having a great time. So, like, truly, probably one of the best festivals I've been to.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Italy was pretty sick as well. Italy, we went uh we played, we played like an obscure place first, like in the middle of nowhere, but ended up being like a really fun show, like very like DIY um vibe, but uh, but yeah, nonetheless, great venue, good sound. It was a fun, fun uh event again. Hospitality was great. We had like proper Italian food made by like an Italian nonna, it was fucking delicious. Uh, then we played two festivals. We played a festival in Venice, which is really cool, like a very nice like DIY fest. Carl got some food poisoning from the vegan food there. Like, I was like chandering on the train on the way back. It was a fucking mess, bro. That thing was crazy. But but, anyways, hey, went in Italy, yeah, went in Italy, and then we played uh the last show was it when we started our conversation at the beginning when you went recording it, we spoke about Milan, and then we played this like really cool uh like punk hardcore fest, um, which is really fucking sick as well. It's a great way to end the the tour. Um, also again, everybody's super like helpful and keen to have you there, and people like I don't know, bro. It's it just you know when you end up doing something like that, uh it's not like you're even trying to compare it to the South African music scene, but it just makes you hungry to go back because what they're doing there, the way that they treat the artists, the way things are run, uh the way the bands are, the etiquette in general, like everything just has this such appeal to it that we we were on the flight on the way back, and we're like, okay, we have to come back next year. When are we gonna be there? What's a good month for us to be back here? But uh, but yeah, bro, so it really is special, and I think it's it's worth, you know, if the bands find themselves in a position where they can make it happen for themselves, it's it really is a life-changing like opportunity, it's really special, bro. Especially you get to spend it's a different kind of time that you spend with your band as well, bro. Because, you know, you I know Lyle, we've known each other for many years, I know Carl. You know, we play, we get together, but when we get together, we do sometimes get together outside of the band, but otherwise it's always practice and it's at shows, you know. So that's the time that you spend with these guys. But when you're on tour, you see the good, the bad, and the fucking ugly. Like, you know what I mean? But but you're still there together. It's like you are your safe zone. The three of you together, it's like this is your unit, you know, and it's it's really special. The the time that we spend together, I think, was really, really it was great, bro. And I really look forward to doing it again because there's so many things that we want to do again together, and there's so many things that I know we can do better together, you know. So it's gonna be really sick to to pull it off again.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

And like something that I want to I I want to touch on regarding this as well is that you know, touring internationally is obviously like a very big hurdle, a very like big obstacle for a lot of local bands. It's something that genuinely, genuinely seems like a very far-off or an impossible task. Now, I know you guys, but it was long before you even started like I think with this international tour, you had been kind of crawling across the country with South Africa itself, playing as many different shows, as many different cities. Um, I mean Yeah, like what what kind of steps did you take for an international tour to even be viable?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

You know, like it does take time, it takes a lot of like time and effort, you know. You need to really again, it comes down to like what do you want? Because you know, the the commitments and also uh the financial kind of input that it comes into something like this, you know. If you're somebody who's doing it for a hobby, you're not fucking gonna do that because it's gonna take so much out of you. It's a lot of time, it's a lot of money, it's a lot of uh it's tough, bro. It's not easy. I mean, obviously it's great to get this opportunity, but it's definitely not easy while you're there, you know. And uh you're gonna have to take a burn. Uh so if you want it, you need to do it because you know, again, it's it's it's like a it's like the school of life, bro. Like, you know, you go there and you learn so much about yourself and your band members, and it's a once and lifetime opportunity. You get to like introduce your music to a whole new, different like personnel, like you know, to an international audience, and like it's completely outside of your your comfort zone. There's nothing that that can beat that. But I mean, you need to have a product that you believe in too, you know, you need to feel like you've earned the rights. I mean, I've always felt like we've worked hard enough, we've we've written the best music that we can produce uh or written, and we've played at as many festivals as possible. We try to get the big opportunities because like we've we we feel like we've earned, like you know, we've worked hard enough to get us into the position. So I think you know, at the end of the day, there's also so many places you can play. Eventually, like you get to like what else can we play now? Like, you know, there's only so many venues in Cape Town. How many times can you go up to Chao Tang? How many times we haven't been to Durban, but we want to do that next. But eventually get to a stage where like we've we've we feel like we can do this. Like, let's go, let's go and test the waters. Uh, we tighten up, we've got the music, let's bite the bullets and fucking send it, bro. And we we went for it and it was fucking sick. Like, I think we absolutely loved every single show, all the people we met. Uh, it was such a rewarding experience for all of us. That's uh again, like I keep on saying over and over again, we will definitely do it again.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

I think, yeah, like you're saying, like to some extent, deciding like when you're gonna go over it, like you should first feel like you've done what you can do here, you know, play everywhere that you can, and then you sort of feel like, okay, well, what else can we do here? There's not that much that we can do. What's the next thing we can do? And the only thing that you can do is play somewhere else. But you have to put in the time in this country to do everything that you can do, like try exhaust everything that you can do, you know, play everywhere, move around, play different cities, play different festivals, play with different bands.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

It's all part of the process, it's all part of the preparation. You know, without preparation, there's no fucking ways you're gonna be able to do something like that because it's so taxing, and also there's a lot of stress, there's a lot of like expectation that comes with it, you know. So if you're going to go out there and you're not prepared and you haven't done the time and efforts, I'm I'm not saying that you're going to fail, but you're setting yourself up for like a very difficult time, you know. I I 100% agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Like, I don't think people realise how much strain it puts on you. I mean, just even going to a different city for the first time as an artist, you know. Like I remember my first shows playing in different cities, and I was like, fuck man, this feels hectic. And then, you know, there's obviously levels to this, you know, it goes. But but on a side note, I think uh Durban would actually fucking love you guys. Yeah, bro. I'd fucking love to go to Durbs. I have a feeling that Durban would be a good a good fit for you guys. You know, you actually sound more like a Durban band than a Cape Town band now that I think about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Actually, it's because I'm from the EC, bro. You can hear my fucking EC twang and my fucking yeah, bro. So like if we go to Durbs, I will definitely try and twist these oak's arms in the band to do a show in East London at least, bro. I know, like I mean, I so I'm from East London, but we'll definitely try and do it's just because you know, if you're gonna do that trip, you can go play three shows in Durbs, but at least on the way down there, play like a few shows. Like, I mean, when are you gonna go down the garden route again? To be honest, I don't think very often. So whilst you're doing it, let's see what we can make of it. And we do like a little like you know, coastal fucking tour of some sorts. Uh, I I'd love to do it. And there was, I was chatting to the guys from um I think it's the bassist. Um, I'm just trying to think of his name. I think you know like Marsh events. Oh yes, uh Keegan. Yeah, yeah, so Keegan, yeah, yeah, bro. So uh we had a quick uh conversation about potentially going up to Durban. We haven't decided upon dates and that, but uh we'll probably use it as an opportunity to also like showcase the the new album. So once we start promoting the new music, we can always like head down the the coast, do Durban, and we can go up to Joe Burg and do Joe Burg and Pretoria, and then we come back to Cape Town. I mean, it's all within the same like sphere, you know, just fucking do it and have fun and promote the music and do a little South African tour, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

So, yeah, obviously, my first time was seeing you guys at Misty Waters. I thought you guys were absolutely fucking sick. You guys had uh a whole like different energy to a lot of the bands that were there. And you know, I touched on a couple of things, and one of the things that I touched on specifically when I spoke about Misty Waters was your your statement about how this being the least pretentious festival that you had played, and like there's no getting around it, there's a lot of like pretentious natures within our music scene, but there are a lot of people who it can be very unpleasant to deal with in a lot of different ways, but I wholeheartedly agree with that whole sentiment. Like there wasn't a single point throughout that whole festival that I felt uncomfortable, like or awkward about something. It just felt like such a damn good time all around.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah, I I think Misty was great. I think all of us actually enjoyed it. You know, we've uh we have got gotten to experience some really cool like festivals and played really cool shows. Um, but I think like overall, like Misty was was really special from uh when we started making contact with the festival, like so in terms of communication, like actually getting there, seeing the venue for the first time. You know, there's I mean, I won't mention names, but I've I've heard like bands be like, oh you're no ways, bro. Sekunda is like so shit, bro. Like, but you're like when you get there, like holy fuck, this place is sick. I thought it was beautiful, bro. I thought the venue was great, the way they set it up was sick. Our tens had like everything was so clearly marked, and everybody is so like paying attention to detail. They're like, Are you guys happy? Do you know where you need to go? This is what time you have to be here. Please, yeah, as my number, give me a shout. This is where you get food. Like, bro, they we felt so well taken care of.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

But like as a as an artist, it was a great experience, but also just being there as a participant. It's it's like a festival just has like sort of a sense of community, and everyone's there to just have a good time. You know, like no one's judging, everyone just does what they want, it just has a good time, you know, it's just all vibes. Have us back, Dion.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Have us back. Or we can just go, bro. Yeah, we just gotta fucking go. Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Thank you so much for taking the time to have a chat to me today. Uh, yeah, it's been an absolute blast getting to chat to you guys. I can't wait to hear the new music that's coming out. I can't wait to see you guys up in Joburg again. Genuinely hope you get down to to Durban at some point. Because again, I think that those guys will love you.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Before you sign off as well, um, again, like big up to what you guys are doing too. You know, the fact that you're having these conversations and having the bands online, I think it's really fucking cool. Like, you know, um, a lot of people might look past it, but I think it really is sick. And we had this conversation as well about how uh, you know, it was my fiance's cousin, they screenshot something like one of these episodes that you did, and they were like, you need to have this conversation with Sludge Underground, like you know, and then that's when you had that story that said, Well, who should bring on? And then I was like, No fucking ways, bro. And then I was like, if this is not meant to be, then I don't know, bro. So we very we we stoked to be here, we're keen to have a conversation. We love what you do, keep keep up the great work and keep on fucking promoting South African music, bro. I think what we got down this side is very special, all for all for the love of the game.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

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