What The Music Industry Doesn’t Want Bands To Know

SPEAKER_06 0:46

There are fucking vultures in music, man. There are people that will rob you fucking blind. I know so many bands in the punk scene especially that are owed. Just their merch back from promoters that have been sitting on it or their royalties.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

And I think it is also present in so many other industries. If I can think about other industries as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Maybe we should have like a madlanga for the uh alt scene we're in check. Just getting it over. We need all the files to come out. Welcome to another episode of Sludge and On Podcast. I'm Nasipizan as my surname. I'm the founder of Sludge and On Podcast. And today I've got today I've got Paul and Christine of ATFN. We're gonna be talking about some wholesome stuff that they have on the way that I'm super excited about. Might be an album, might be not. I don't know. Hang around till the end. But um yeah, how's it going, guys? How are you doing? It's really awesome seeing you. Um, yeah, how's it going this evening?

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Once again, thank you to the the number one supporter of alternative music in the whole of South Africa.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

People don't know, but this is like our our like 10th take this evening.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

So hopefully you're talking about this is this is all completely provided.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Uh yeah, so I was today as all when I found out that you guys are siblings. So for anyone who actually does not know, I want to find out from Christine. You know, how has it been, you know, being part of ATFN?

SPEAKER_04 2:21

It's honestly been a childhood dream come true for me to be part of this band. Um, I've always loved the music. I mean, obviously, as my brother Paul is like one of the founding members, I know all the music from clean stuff, you know, and just it's such an honor to be able to sing it and be part of it. It's just so much fun. It really is just loads and loads of fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:44

And you've you've you kind of sung with us like over the years, over yeah, pretty much. We'd always haul you up.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Every time, yeah. I've always been yeah, somewhere on stage with ADF ATFN.

SPEAKER_06 2:57

There's lots of and you've recorded as well, yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Yeah, recorded as well. Always plugging in. I've always plugged in, which has been so so much fun as well. Because I lived overseas for a long time, and every time I came back, it was so much fun to be able to like plug in and oh yeah, learn the cool new music.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

This interview should literally just be about Christine, guys. I mean, you've had Paul on the show before with Marcel. So with Marcel. If you want to check that out, we'll we'll link it in the in the description. But Paul, uh, it's just a joke, obviously. But obviously, Paul, you've been a part of this like from way back, bro. I mean, Christine just mentioned there that you're one of the founding members. So I need you to tell me what it's like dropping an album or the upcoming album in 2026 compared to maybe something that you may have dropped back in say 1998 when you started out. How does that feel? Is there any difference at all? Would you say massive difference?

SPEAKER_06 3:50

Uh, not in terms of uh writing or recording. In those respects, it's gotten a lot easier. You know, we've over the years I've built up my own studio, so we our working environment is a lot more controlled, and our team in that respect is really, really jacked. You know, we've got our our mix engineer, Scott Hawkist, uh, who's been working with us for years because I refuse to mix our own stuff. I'm done with that. I'm done with the the mental chaos that comes with mixing your own work. Like, screw that. Um, we're a very DIY band, so like we we do everything ourselves, even the artworks, those incredible nine different artworks that were done, uh, were done by an old member, uh, one of the original founders, my my really good friend Hank. He lives in Ireland. He's actually done the artwork, he's done a few artworks for us over the years. Um, but in terms of like press and you know, getting it out to places and uh, you know, the the whole playlisting debacle, like that's really quite intense. You know, back in the day we didn't really have a label per se, but we we were we had distribution with a metal label called Witch Doctor Records, if you remember them. Uh, they were responsible for bringing out all like Sepulchura and Entombed and The Haunted. They brought out a shitload of metal bands, and they uh they made sure that you know, once we had something pressed, that it would be in the CD shops. So we weren't technically signed by them, but uh we we would walk into any store and then honestly, if we were in Kimberley or in the free state somewhere, we could walk into a music and our music would be there. And we we we would get coverage from you know, like the Star and Sunday Times and Pretorian News. We had Blunt magazine, yeah, and those were in the stores or you know, I think it was a monthly blunt was like a monthly, or quarterly something like that. And they would review a lot of metal and punk and and alternative music. So I remember we were in like Pilgrim's Rest one day on like we took a break and we were out there, I don't know why we were there, and some Chocker key walked up and shot, yes like this ATFN. And I mean it's not like we were like a big name band or anything, but they knew us because of the blunt man. So uh in terms of outreaching people, it was a bit easier, ironically, given all the tools we have.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, yeah, I know that's that's absolutely brilliant. And I think one of the things as well that I mentioned um in in the other recordings and our other attempts was uh literally, you know, the the press kit that you guys have, and it makes me actually think about like an album sort of rollout, you know. Um, I I liken, you know, one of the best sort of examples of an album rollout, and I urge you, I urge both of you to actually go check that out. If you can find someone talking about this on YouTube, try to check it out. Uh, there's a duo called Clips, uh, they're called Clips, it's they're like a hip-hop duo. My goodness, they had one of the best rollouts like ever. And when you see someone actually documenting it, it's absolutely wild. So, which is what makes me think about you guys' press kit because I'm looking at everything that you guys have mentioned on there regarding the upcoming album. You got merch in there, you've got you know, upcoming tour dates, you know, all the details and everything. It's sort of like a like a blueprint of sorts of like, you know, the all you you see the album coming, you know, alive in a way. It excited me so much. So, what I want to know from you guys is, you know, what does it actually how do you actually plan the perfect rollout, you know, in 2026? How would you guys say you went about actually you know coming up with the concept of this album and being like, this is what we're gonna do to keep it alive for as long as possible?

SPEAKER_04 7:46

Sure. Well, I want to say that a lot of the plans that you have, like don't plan too much because plans change. Hey, damn, like so many plans have been made that you've had to quickly pivot and and adapt and like make different plans, and yeah, what's possible, what's not possible, like yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:06

Uh I think look, we've learned a lot over the years, you know. So we know there's good examples of how to do it. I I was talking to Gavin from uh from Worms today. He was on his way back from Punk Rock holiday, and we were like, you know, dude, we should just start a label because we're doing this work anyway. We should just see if there were bands who are like willing to pay a stock fell or something or 500 bucks a month for us to do because we've got it, we've got everything. You mentioned the the press release, you know, like it's gotten good because I know if I look at old ones, I can say, ish, no, that didn't look so cool, you know. So but we're doing we're doing everything. So we you basically have to function like your own label now. So when I'm sending something out to the press, uh it has to look amazing, it has to grab your attention and and be really cool, but also not too um too in-depth. You don't want scrolling through like 10-15 pages, so there'll be templates for each specific thing that you're reaching out to, whether it's media or labels or uh other bands or whatever. So we just learnt a lot. We've learned a shitload and how how not to look like amateur-ish, I guess, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

You know, you're one of the you guys are one of the leading bands, I think it might have been sometime last year or the year before, um, that publicly came out and were like, guys, we are not dropping, or rather, we are removing music from Spotify, for example. And it really, I feel like it was such a brave step because one would think that you know something like Spotify would offer accessibility. And I want to know what sort of the outcome of that was because I know that obviously with you guys having removed the music from there, um, the upcoming album probably also won't be there. So, you know, what would you say the outcome has been? You know, what is what is life like for a South African band after no music on Spotify? I want to see sort of the pros and cons in case someone is watching this and is like, yo, I actually want to do the same, but I've just been a bit afraid.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

What were you getting out of Spotify in in any ways that you that you lost?

SPEAKER_06 10:21

That's why I put the zero up.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Nothing things have been pretty great.

SPEAKER_06 10:26

Like nothing really changed.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Nothing changed.

SPEAKER_06 10:29

No one no one gave a shit before, and no one gives a shit now. So like, yeah, I mean it's just how do you uh we may you know if it's Spotify is just one part of like a an industry that like I pretty much fucking detest that or or or a way to operate that I detest that does that doesn't serve bands, it only serves an audience, and you always have this. So I'm ranting a bit now, but it it it it's how how do we find a way that it serves the artist? That was my big thing, and any of the you know, Spotify is one of the evils, you know, it could have been Apple Music and we left, and we couldn't leave all of them because then that's stupid. But for me, it was the thing when they started to uh well, firstly, their payment structure is rubbish, and um who they're funding and who they're funding the whole, you know, you see them tied in with AI uh drone war drone technology. We were just like, oh fuck this, bro.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

We aren't like I guess yeah, you could argue, well, why didn't we do other things and work on other things? I guess it is a little bit of a a statement in a way, um, and you can point out a million things that we're not doing if you want to, but yeah, you know, that's just something that we decided to do.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, so with you guys, what would you say has been the best alternative for you guys, like in terms of platform, even just as an opportunity for someone who's listening or watching this, you know, where would the best sort of platform be to support ATFN, you know, in anticipation of the new album as well? Come to a show and buy the album.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

Bandcamp to experience the album as an album.

SPEAKER_06 12:09

It's gonna be on Deezer, it'll be on Apple Music, all that rubbish. Title, title, uh, not rubbish, sorry, sorry, uh really useful and helpful, you know. But come come to the record. Come to come to the record, come to the picto the say, come to the pictures, come to the seance.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

No, I think I think I think what you I think I think what you guys did regarding, you know, uh jumping off of Spotify. Obviously, I think it's very much like on brand when it comes to just you know punk and even the upcoming. Okay, I think it's time that we even name this, obviously. Nothing is punk anymore. That's the album officially that's coming up. Shout out to you guys for that. Um, some of the elements that you guys have um within that that upcoming album is obviously not conformant to the algorithm, you know, this whole thing about playlists and all that there. That sort of kills the joy of you know being a creative because you need to be stressing about what the algorithm says. You need to create things in a specific way so that people on TikTok you know receive it well and all of that. There, it's something that I'm a huge fan of, especially also in the AI era and everything that is going on. Um, what I really want to know from you guys though is, you know, at the end of the day, it is still a situation where the platforms or you know, some of these tools, like things like the algorithm and all that there serve some sort of purpose in terms of you know getting a bit of reach and so on. Is there sort of like a balancing game that you guys play when it comes to this? Or is it just a complete fuck this shit completely? You know, how do you guys balance and make sure that at least some of the tools are being utilized or the tools that will be able to get you guys out there and the music out there, you know, don't really you don't really suffer in terms of you know getting out there more and reaching more people while also not conforming fully.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

I think it has to feel right as well. Like just how how we want our music to hopefully be enjoyed. Uh yeah, I guess it just has to feel right for us.

SPEAKER_06 14:22

It's so tough because especially for a band like us, like we we're a bit of an odd entity, like we we sandwiched somewhere in between punk and metal. But we've got this prog thing that we do sometimes, and some folks say, like, you know, if we play some friends like a a new track, like, oh, it's so progressive, or it's so there's so much going on. And I'm like, fuck, really? Have you heard Mastodon? Like, have you heard fucking propagandi? These bands, these are like popular bands that uh they have a lot going on, and I was just way less progressive than that shit. And I've I've literally had it where like I'll submit to a playlist and uh I'll get a mail back that'll you know, let's say I'm submitting to a punk playlist and they'll say yeah it's a bit too metal for that.

SPEAKER_05 15:12

I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_06 15:14

But strung out's on there, and strung out's way more metal than us. I mean, maybe it's just a thing of that they don't know how to tell us that we actually shit and they don't like us. I prefer that than this. I want that kind of honesty. I'd much prefer that kind of honesty than submit. I've had it with with with with with decent and also with people I know within that run some of these playlists, it's too metal, and then you know that if you're submitting to a metal playlist, ah, it's a bit too punk. It's like oh fuck. So then you submit to a prog playlist.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I don't think people are even really using their ears a lot of the time. It's like just the association that was made a long time ago is just what still stands, and then what like you're just like stuck in this like picture that someone's created about you, you know, like yeah, it's like listen to the music, like listen to the music, and that's part of that's exactly that's literally part of what the frustration was that fueled a lot of the writing for it was like we can list 10 or 20 bands right now that are as punk or metal as the other that fit neatly in both or had have fans on both sides.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

And for me, what I do feel unfortunately, and they can say I'm cynical, I don't feel like it. I think anyone with a fucking brain and a set of ears can see that there's a homogenization happening, especially in metal, and there's insides of punk rock, where it's like if you don't sound like a skate punk band, you don't get on XY festival overseas. If you you know, like a metal scene here, there's phenomenal metal bands here, they're incredible, but there's also to my ears like a bit of like a sounder like thing, you know, like a slam, it's got a slam, and it's all gotta be guttural, like there's no singers, like uh with these with the with the exception I'd say of some of the female fronted bands like Osias and um some of the others, and Marty, yeah, yeah, but you know, like singers with the thing with this with the fucking singers, you know what I mean? And I I get it, there's trends, trends happen, but um homogenization in a general sense with music, I think is there is a danger there because if it it needs to fit not just in metal or punk in pop and other things to make it to make sure that that playlist goes, good job, buddy. Welcome to the club. And I'm not that's not I I'm a fucking musician, I write the music that I want to write.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

Yeah, I think the whole creative process is just like I think if you can try to let go of the outcome of it because you can just get so lost in that, and like what do people think, and like how many likes and how many views and how many listens, and you know, if you don't crack the algorithm right, it can really fuck with your head, and like you know, I think if you can try to separate yourself from that in a way and just and that that's been quite cool to take it from that perspective, 100% often land on that as a band, actually.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

It's something we've always had to do because you have influences and you try and wean out your influences, but like we want to be an interesting listen. I I want to make music that's interesting to listen to for me, and I guess if people find it like to this or to that, fine. I'm not having sleepless nights about it, but I would have sleepless nights if I'm going okay, all right. Now we need to do the we're gonna do a slam track, and this one's gonna be like a new metal track, and this one's gonna be uh this sort of track. Like that would that's not art for me. That's not an honest expression, like trying to fit in so to a thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

But like you said, I think because for someone else that is art, and that's okay, you know, like it's just a different way um that feels like completely authentic to the creation process for us, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

You know, one of the things that you guys have listed as being, you know, an issue right now in the sort of like musical landscape globally is you know AI generated content as well. I want to get your guys' opinion on something that happened. It must have been a month or two back where um there was this whole thing about like Suno, you know, taking like artists sort of like, you know, styles and and elements and all that there, and you know, basically learning it and then offering it, you know, as sort of like, you know, things that can be generated and so on and so forth. Um, you got a lot of bands in South Africa. I was actually surprised, a lot of South African bands that were very vocal about how, you know, they weren't really happy about that, obviously. Um, but on one side, you also had, I did see one or two opinions, you know, people saying, well, you know, what's really wrong with that? Because you as a human being will get your influences from other artists as well. You know, you may take something from like a Blink 182, take something from an ATFN, you know, put it together and you've got your own ThinkTub vibe. What's your sort of view on that? I mean, where do you guys sort of land on that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_04 20:04

I think we have like differences, differences differences of opinions within the band, um, which I think is quite healthy. Like I definitely have used AI to inspire me to then do my own thing. Um, so I've used it as a tool in that way. I think it can be very useful as a tool. Um but if it's like becoming this thing where it's a crutch and you're like maybe not using your own creative side that much anymore, then maybe it's a bit of a problem. I do I have like I do feel like if you're dunny with a day save and you don't have a design skills, and maybe you just want to poster for your cook's sisters and whatever, like it can be so helpful for so many people. However, that argument's interesting where we where you start to see like again the word homogenization of this images, your brain doesn't really register the difference between a lot of samey looking things, so it actually doesn't cut through for for for that uh mom and pop store. So, like you could argue it both ways, like how the brain perceives it, and how it's you know, like and yeah, I guess whether or not it's ethical or useful.

SPEAKER_06 21:12

I had an interesting one the other day. Like, we run a rehearsal room at the studio, and a friend of mine, a very good death metal drummer, came for a practice, and you'll no shade on him, won't name any names. But he says to me, Fuck man, I just can't get enough of this fucking AI country music, man. Ah, me and Michael, we love our country music. We put on that AI sip and we goose tip all my goose step. And I'm like, and a part of me like fucking just wanted to, but then an interesting thing happened to me. Oh boy, so I'm a humongous Iron Maiden fan. I'm the biggest fucking Iron Maiden fan you've ever met. And uh the other day I was doing some work and I had some shit playing there, and uh an AI synthwave uh full album cover of Somewhere in Time came up. Oh dude, it was brilliant. And I checked all the comments, we're like diehard maiden fans, and they were like, I hate to admit how much I liked it, particularly Somewhere in Time, because it's like all futuristic and Blade Runner and whatever. It just worked perfectly. So, in an instance like that, I could see how there's a novelty to it that how how how rad would be hearing, oh, what it would be like a reimagined version of something like this and this and this. But I think to to answer your original question. Question. I think it's it's there needs to be credit given. Like if if that algorithm is scuppering the depths of a million tracks, it needs to list it. If it's clever enough to fucking go in there and say, Oh, we'll take the the the symbol sound of slipknot and we'll take the guitar sound from Randy Rhodes or whatever. Yeah, then it should fucking say that inspired by da-da-da-da-da. So then the kid can maybe go, Oh, oh, oh, that's a that's a Randy Rhodes guitar sound, or that's a a set of Sabian symbols or whatever it may be. I don't know, maybe. I and we're only at the beginning of it now. I don't know what it's gonna be like.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Yeah, would you say then this extends to human beings as well? I mean, would would you say this would need to apply to say, for example, if if you as Paul have taken any Iron Maiden influences, every time you write something or anytime you publish something, there would need to be in writing somewhere that hey, made an inspired type vibe. Or would you say it's just I don't know, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_06 23:53

I think I think we you know, I heard a producer once say, because I think being inspired by something is in is inevitable. You're going to start with what you're influenced by, and that's how we all any musician from time memorial will tell you that, oh, I was into Led Zeppelin, or I like the Beatles, and I liked XYZ. But a really excellent producer I worked with once, he said, like, work to a place that your influences aren't right on your sleeve, you know, like you almost have to wean out your influences. It was super obvious in the early days that like we listened to No Effects and we listened to Iron Maiden. I mean, uh, my good friend Chris from the Black Cat Bones was like, Yeah, I'll clunk so punk Iron Maiden, you know, which was kind of like okay, maybe we should dial that back a little bit, you know. It's one thing getting off on it, but it's not really doing something. Uh you want to get to a place where it's not obvious, yeah, where it's you. Um, and I'm I'm sure no artist out there would have any problem talking about what what influenced them, and then that helps. Let's talk, you know, like the CD sleeves. We went through the CD sleeves, and we saw like all those millions of bands that the other bands thanked, those were influences, you know, and they're they're right there in black and white. So it just just be honest about it, you know. You know, just be honest about what it is that's inspiring you, I guess. Like, or or just learn to cover it up so damn well that like no one can do.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, I know. Makes absolute sense, guys. Uh, I saw that uh obviously uh nothing is punk anymore is gonna be just under 50 minutes or so. Uh it's it's also a very another bold move as well, because we are living in an era of short attention spans and so on. So I think for anyone who's just uh who's been a long-term sort of ATFN fan, it's gonna be absolutely beautiful jumping into that whole experience. Um, how would you guys sort sort of I think when I was structuring this question, it was more like how do you actually tailor and put together a no-skip album? But like for you guys, how would you say, you know, the upcoming album, you know, speaks to that? You know, how how how have you guys sort of ensured that anyone who comes in listening to the album for the first time, you know, has a a brilliant enough experience that they stick with it from start to finish and maybe come out a changed human being?

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Sheesh, I have to say, like for that process, it's been quite a democracy in the band. Like everybody's had a had a chance to say, like, in terms of like track listing what feels right for them. Um, we've been playing quite a couple of the songs already live and like also feeling that, like what feels right energetically in terms of like how the album flows from track to track. Like um, so we've definitely like yeah, pondered on that quite a bit. Um so I think we've got quite a really like yeah, we've landed on something awesome in terms of the track listing. It takes you on like a what we feel hopefully is like a uh an interesting journey, like sound emotions, like yeah, lots of curiosity being piqued in the beginning, and then pulling on the heartstrings, and then bam, like super intense, and then yeah, a little bit of a groovy vibe, and then bam again, and then whoa, I wasn't expecting this.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah, I love that so much. Yeah, Paul, would you echo the same sort of sentiments?

SPEAKER_06 27:32

Yeah, fuck for sure. I mean, we I we just wanted to make an album. Um, we just were like, fuck, we did single, we did a bunch of singles since COVID. We did about four or five singles, and then I want to write an album. Fuck what fuck this singles bullshit. We'll go back to doing some singles again, but I want to do that. And there could be a million reasons why it's detrimental for the band. I just don't care. I just could not be asked anymore. Like jumping through other people's hoops. So uh we did, we did, we did. There was let's just kind of there's a concept, it's not really a concept record, there's no like protagonist that moves through a thing, but there there are definitely like consistent themes, but uh regarding to what nothing is punk anymore really is, you know. I mean, there's songs that deal with um taking pot shots at at fucking homogenized festival lineups, or the fact that there's there's no alternative mainstream radio. You know, why did why did we have why did we have a late night rock and metal show on 5 FM for decades? Why is that not a thing? Why why did some and I won't mention names and we can if we want to, but it's probably best if we don't, is why are why are there some popular uh um student radio stations that I know for a fact have outlawed South African alternative music? I know this from the top. There's a mandate that that's not a thing anymore. And then you and I see it as as a studio owner, I see when that was a decision, all of a sudden you just stop getting like young bands. They don't they don't understand like how powerful that is when you when you cut that shit off at the knees, just because it's not like the main demographic listenership, it never was. You just just give them the fucking two hours that they always had in the evenings, and trust me, those kids will listen. So there's things there's songs like that, and there's songs about um all sorts of things related to the title. Um there's songs about like the physical act of writing music, like being honest within writing music, and we threw away a lot of songs. We wrote and we we probably wrote about 30 over the last two or three years and came down to these nine. To my ears, there's no there's no filler on this, so it's like they can listen to it standalone and be like, whoa, that's pretty cool, or like, yeah, but to my ears, there's no there's no dud.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

For me as well. Obviously, I'm biased, but yeah, it's it's really humbling and cool to be part of making music like this.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, brilliant. I saw there that you guys have a Johnny Clegg cover that's in there. I want to know what the admin is for that, you know, covering, you know, like uh an absolute legends sort of song. What actually how do you go about doing that and making sure that you know everything is is is sort of like in line and so on. I also want you guys to touch on you know the sort of like the charity aspect, because you know, there's something wholesome that actually comes out of the song, you know, essentially. So yeah, walk me through all of that, bro.

SPEAKER_06 30:51

So the admin was actually minimum. Um when it comes to covering a track, uh the only time you're gonna run into any stickiness is if you change the lyrics. So if you want to, if you want to record uh you make the music as bold and as nuts as possible, as long as the lyrics stay the same, we didn't even have to pay anything. We we asked our label to check out that for us, and they were like, no, go ahead, do it. And um, yo, that's the the admin side. Would you like to touch on the charity side?

SPEAKER_04 31:22

I think you know that you've been involved with it quite a lot more than I have.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Like well, because we can't um physically generate any royalties from that song, uh we were like, well, hey, it's such a fucking awesome tune. Let's get like a team of our buddies like to sing on it, and then we can we got permission to whatever whatever income that comes from that that song, uh as well as the physical copies, because you can't technically like you can't technically sell it. So we're like, okay, so whatever portion comes from those songs, streaming-wise or whatever, obviously a lot of it goes to Johnny Clegg, but anything that comes from our side, in terms of the physical media, as well as the donations that people can do, will all go to uh the Yakaranda Kinerace. It's uh it's a it's a children's home in Pretoria, or Jacaranda children, if you like. They've been around since the 1980s, they serve at any time about 500 children from all walks of life, colors, creeds, religions. And what's really cool about them is that you know, aside from just the um giving shelter and food, uh, they also provide education, but they also do life skills, mentorship, they have sports programs, they have music programs, um, they have like um like real tangible skills programs from like uh technology-related things or like very practical fixing things skills, and they take the kids out. They really do they they do the Lord's work. They are also like many of these places uh suffering from lack of funding. So we thought, you know, let's let's get the crew together. We've got Hunter Kennedy on there, we've got Jay Bones from Fuzzy Gish, we've got Steph from the Sled. Christine is obviously taking a bit. I don't actually sing much on that track, but we thought let's, you know, like let's get these friends of ours who have um done some cool things in their career and we can use their platforms as well to promote the charity. Uh, we and we're hoping this gets out to Johnny because uh to Jesse. Sorry. Our friend Carrie Ann says that she'll help us out because I don't know Jesse personally, but if you're listening, buddy, advertiser track, let's raise some money for the Jacaranda children. Yeah, and um, so we're hoping we we were sending the the press release out to them. So hopefully Jesse is stoked on the idea. Uh look, it's gonna bloody well go out whether you like it or not, mate. But uh it's a great, it's it's a it's a great thing, man. You have to we've been blessed with what we've been able to do in our lives, and South Africa suffers, and we can the best way that you can help any any community, I believe, is by doing your best, and my best is music. So the best way I can give is with what my skill is. So that's that's the intention behind uh cruel, crazy, beautiful world.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I want to look at in in regards to the album. You know, how do you pick the perfect sort of like lead single? Because I noticed there Beige Fest is the one that's gonna be, you know, the first one to come out. By the time that this episode is out, the single will will already be out. So, you know, you've got nine kids, bro. How do you then be like, yo, you're the one that's coming out first? Type vibe.

SPEAKER_04 34:57

You are about to be a dad as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

So that's true. Whoa! What congrats, dude? This is insane. What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

You are you guys are you guys have like you guys have been blowing my mind this entire episode with these like bombs that you guys are dropping, and it's twins, dude. What that's so insane. Apparently, apparently, if you have like twins, there's like in your bloodline there has been another set of twins as well, or something like that. I don't know how true that that is. Is there anyone that came before you that was like a set of twins or something?

SPEAKER_04 35:32

There's definitely a genetic predisposition in the family somewhere, yeah. Like yeah, uh distant, but it's more and more actually in the family.

SPEAKER_06 35:42

Is it? I know in my in my partner's side there's twins. I can't think of twins in our side, but yeah. We had we hadn't make it, we hadn't made a public announcement yet. Not that it's like you know, some sort of like this, bro, if you want.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

I'm so happy for you, dude.

SPEAKER_06 35:59

Tell the world I'm happy because uh because it wasn't an oopsie, we'd actually planned it. So we were it's something we wanted, we wanted to do, and we were blessed with that. So December time.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

So oh December, oh dude, guys, I'm gonna cry. You're gonna make me cry on this episode.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

What this is absolutely brilliant news, but but yeah, the single, please. How do you how do you then pick? You've got your twins there. How are you then like, yo, twin number one? You you're the one who's gonna represent you know the family.

SPEAKER_06 36:38

Well, I don't know. I don't know. I I'm not gonna put any pressure on them to do anything. They misses the only thing I'll tell them is what my dad told me was just like try your best at whatever you love. Yeah, like if you love something, try it that. Like, yeah, I never I'll never understand the idea of boredom. I don't think I've ever been bored in my life. Like, if you love something, you can try your best at it, and that's it. And it doesn't have to be music, like yeah, whatever it may be. Now you you've you you're married, right? You got kids? Do you okay?

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I've got I've got I've got two, bro. Yeah, I've got two kids. My my daughter is she's nine, and then my son is three, he turned three in January.

SPEAKER_06 37:20

So James baby. Yeah so can I call you for some tips?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Yeah, sure thing, bro. But obviously with this thing, yeah, it's like it's it's so amazing because it's like there's no like user manual for it, bro. You just you learn as you go, and it's such a wholesome experience. And I know you're gonna be a good dad, dude. Just looking at the way you can pick up these things, bro, from like the the way that you're like so passionate about like the music and the effort that you put into it and all that there, bro. If you care this much about you know ATFN and everything that you do in terms of the music, then being a dad is gonna be super nice, bro. Thank you, man. Yeah, so thank you. I appreciate that. It's brilliant. Just just sort of linking it back to the question, yeah. So how did you guys pick Beige Fest to be you know the the lead single? How do you you know how how do you pick the bit the perfect sort of like lead single for an album?

SPEAKER_06 38:16

Look, no one's gonna play this thing on radio. I mean, they might, they might. So we were kind of like, what's the one that's maybe the the the easiest on the ear, perhaps?

SPEAKER_03 38:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:26

Um, it also has the boldest statement in it, like yes, title track in a way. Yeah, tell me about that. Go go into that. I mean, the lyrics go. I thought there'd be more anger, more piss and vitriol, less flat cap booze hound, cotton on cokeheads curating all the jobs.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

He's obsessed with that line.

SPEAKER_06 38:49

I love it, you know, and we're not we're not when I'm not talking about metal promoters here or punk promoter. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about you know, mainstream adjacent things that love to just sideline anything that's got a distorted guitar in it, you know, it's that, and uh, but it's got a very catchy as catchy chorus, you know.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Yeah, I would say that'd be definitely a driver.

SPEAKER_06 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Like how are people gonna receive it like on the ears? Little intro to pique the interest of what gets the interest flowing that's gonna want like bring people to want to listen to the whole album.

SPEAKER_06 39:25

Yeah, yeah. It's not too progressive, although there is about a five-minute outro solo and an odd time signature that we just conveniently didn't do a radio edit for like not.

SPEAKER_04 39:37

Did you not? Yeah, no, no, but it is so sick though. It is, and we don't play that live, so uh you get it on the album, which I think is so sick. Like it's you want that journey, man. It's part of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, I I don't want you guys to drop names, okay? But like with what you mentioned there with the lyrics and so on, and then the promoters and stuff, I I think of the term if the shoe fits. Is this shoe for like someone in the scene or like a group of like promoters in the scene, or would you say it's outside of that?

SPEAKER_06 40:10

Uh, it's not it's not aimed at anyone in particular, although if I had to rack my brain, I can probably think of a few. I look, I mean, I'm I'm a bully though. Yeah, I mean, I look pretty good for 68, you know, but like uh we've all been around long enough to know there are fucking vultures in music, man. There are people that will rob you fucking blind. There are I know so many bands in the punk scene, especially that are owed just their merch back from from from promoters that have been sitting on it, or their royalties and love to preach about punk rock and unity and all this kind of crap, and then you're like so. It's it's that sort of thing, like any any sort of nefarious element within music, because I can only speak for music, but I think it is also present in so many other industries, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

Like I could think about other industries as well, like pretty much almost everywhere, you know. There's that like yeah, maybe like a lack of ethics or something, or like a lack of like just like you know, good old solid handshake, and oh like you know, like yeah, yeah, scouts on it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe that's a it's like that nothing is punk anymore. Like there's that, like, yeah, there's that grit and honesty and right. Well, you expect music.

SPEAKER_06 41:25

Like it's yeah, like I ex I expect, I expect a certain like ethical code within alternative music, metal and punk rock, especially. You know, it's like it's I don't know, maybe I'm a bit idealistic. It's something that I grew up feeling like we could achieve, we could get this right, and I think for the most part we do. So it's it's it it's it's more aimed at like I'm saying, you know, like the the sort of pop adjacent things or the mainstream media outlets that for ages were supporting alternative music, and then just all of a sudden we're like, nah, fuck this, bye.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah, yeah, sure. Maybe we should have like a madlanga for the uh alt scene burn. Check just getting exposed.

SPEAKER_06 42:11

Can you chair it? I think you need to be the chairman. Please do.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

You need like a little hammer.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Let me finish my studies first and then we'll we'll see if we can cook something up. We need all the files to come out, yeah. The last the last um the last points I want to touch on regarding the album is the artwork. You did mention near the beginning that Hank uh basically even designed like artwork for like each song or something, bro. Tell me, tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

I don't know what Henky was thinking. Uh I think he just allowed himself to go into the into the zone and and allow himself the joy of like being creative for an album. Because the artwork for this album reminds me of so of so many of my favorites, like hot water music, um, the new what's next. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's was you know, like the flaming hearts as well. Like and and just to to like so much of what this album is about is like reminiscence of the days of having a physical product in your hand and like looking at the artwork and then and loving the artwork and you know, getting fucking tattoos of album artwork on your body, you know, like that's what we've all done. Oh, I'm I you have I have for sure. Like, um, it's so to think that a little like spark of excitement for maybe that time, that experience. You know, he um allowed himself to go into that for him as a creative artist, you know. I think for him that's a very important place for him to be as an artist within himself, you know. I think he's in insanely creative.

SPEAKER_06 43:50

He we actually we didn't we didn't ask him to create um multiple versions, he just he kind of went out the gate and he was like the first draft he sent back, I think there were like six, and I was like, what the hell? And the concept was so tight as well. You know, the idea of nothing is punk anymore. It's it's his idea was every every version of of of a death spiral found in nature. So you have like ants do it, fish do it. Fucking I didn't know rats do it, like rats do it, they come they clump together to try and stay safe, but then somehow they get entangled. Uh, you know, the moths, the kudos, the humans, you know, and it was just like my god, dude. And then he so we're so blessed.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Because this linked so perfectly with the music, it's like he he got it. Like he obviously knew the music, and like he just he just got it. I think because you and Hank have like it's my Brother's best friend from childhood. I remember them growing up. His like Hank's little brother was my first friend ever, you know. So we all grew up together. So there's also like a spiritual connection, uh, you know, in terms of like you two as you know artists and friends growing up musically, you know, like that's uh definitely so beautiful to observe.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

No, that's really dope, guys. Uh so yeah, obviously, you do have some shows lined up as well to promote uh obviously the album once it comes out. Uh, do tell us a bit more about those. I saw three Durban shows actually, and I was really excited because bands often overlook Durban. So thank you for doing that.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Uh not anymore, Gabriel.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Some of the yeah, yeah, for sure. Tell us about the upcoming tour then, you know, uh maybe dates and some of the venues that people can check you guys uh at.

SPEAKER_06 45:33

Yeah, for sure. Well, first things first, are you are you still in KZN or did you move up to Joburg as well?

SPEAKER_01 45:38

No, I am in KZN, bro. It's Marcel that moved up, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:41

Okay, so we'll uh we'll make sure that we get some some uh I don't know if there's gonna be a backstage, but we'll make sure we get some door passes for you and the best.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I'm not worthy, bro.

SPEAKER_06 45:54

Like I said in the beginning, this whole scene will be toast without you for a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

If you stop, I'll stop.

SPEAKER_06 46:05

18th of September, we start we actually start everything off. We we we thought about calling it the fuck you Cape Town tour because we're not going to Cape Town.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

We would love to that, but then we would love to, bro.

SPEAKER_06 46:16

We would love to 70,000 bucks to get five people down and eat just eat them, just eat them and feed them.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Eat all of them, eat all of them it's gonna be a hefty job.

SPEAKER_06 46:26

No, no, no, no, no, no. But no, it didn't work out. So we went, okay, so three days, 18th. We started loop evolution in Bolito with our uh with no, not with ours, with uh Sons of Hurricane and you first, and then the next night West for Warehouse, Durban, 19th. The 19th, yeah, with that's ours. So that's we're so stoked for ours reunion show, super big fans and been mates with those ghosts for years, like decades. Anyway, uh, and nine refrain as well, we're gonna be on the bill for that, and then the Sunday, the 20th, we're at Robson's for our for an acoustic show. We're doing our probably just you and me, it might just be you and me doing the uh punk goes acoustic thing where we do our whole repertoire of stuff that we do, and then uh it's gonna be 26 at Sonic.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

We're gonna be playing Emileth show of Sirens Fest.

SPEAKER_06 47:19

The Sirens Fest, that's where the we actually haven't made an announcement of all the bands. I think we kind of cribbed because we had to. So we're there for that festival. The lineup will be announced soon. And then the next night.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

So it's gonna be Cafe Barcelona on the 27th, which will be the acoustic show again.

SPEAKER_06 47:38

We might get some friends in for that. Yeah, maybe we'll ask Jay Bones to join us.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

That's been fun.

SPEAKER_06 47:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

Then Railways on the 3rd.

SPEAKER_06 47:46

So then that's like the main Pretoria launch on the 3rd of October with Low Hollow, Behated, and Drunk Wizard, and then yeah, I fucking stoked for that.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

And then the fourth, the Troyville Hotel.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

And we finished up at the Troyville with Carrie Ann at the Troyville in Joburg with uh huge fans, shameless and J Bones opening the show. But shameless, like the way they have unrelenting force. I just want that band to become so fucking famous.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

It's just like everything, like they've touched on like deep stuff, like very just but also how they pull themselves out, man.

SPEAKER_06 48:29

Like after such tragedy to come back with like such uh such fire, and the music is so fucking good. I wish so good. I wish, see, that's the shit that needs to be played anyway. I'm gonna go on a fucking tangent now. So I'm like, I just shut up. Shameless, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Damn, yeah, to play with them is always like, oh, yeah, and that's that.

SPEAKER_06 48:50

And then we'll hopefully uh not go into criminal amounts of debt and then and then get to Cape Town sometime next year.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

No, we love you, Cape Town. We would love to see you, but we will offer us some offer us some guarantees, and then maybe we'll get there.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

Fuck us.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yeah, Christine. Just briefly there, you mentioned the backup buddy, which is something that I actually did want to touch on, but just briefly before we close out, the backer buddy, what is going on there?

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Yeah, look, we're a DIY band, we're doing everything ourselves, like most people out there, and this is just to really help us um fund the project, and a lot of the proceeds are going for cool crazy. Um, and some of the tiers, there's different tiers to what you can contribute, and for like different tiers, you'll be able to also like contribute to the Jack Randa Children's Home as well. Yeah, get some sick merch. There's yeah, really cool stuff that you can get with it if you're willing to like help us out with our little our dream, you know.

SPEAKER_06 49:40

So there's about five or six different tiers. So I think with the uh you know, it goes up depending what you depending on what you pledge, you'll get um oh, and this is this is another cool thing. So like this is kind of a little bit of a catch with it, is that we're only printing enough CDs for the backup buddy. So we'll have a few at the shows, but we're only printing for that. So like people that pledge, they'll get physical albums. So we want it to be like, let's make sure it goes to people who actually want this thing. Yeah, so and you're not sitting with stock for for years and years and years, and if we sell it, then we'll make some more. But initially, those ones are gonna go to them, and really sick uh t-shirts and unique merch things that'll just go to those people, uh, executive producer credits as well for whoever's like uh interested in that, and then obviously chunks of everything go to the Jackaranda Children's home as well, or you can just say, screw the band, and we're just gonna donate to Jackaranda Children, in which case, fair enough.

SPEAKER_05 50:44

Yeah, awesome. Do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

All right, Circle. So obviously, uh, we'll, as I said, have the QR code on screen somewhere. You should be able to just scan it with your phone or something, and then it will take you straight to that. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. Uh, we'll see you guys next time. It is cheers for now. Peace.

SPEAKER_06 51:02

Thanks very much. Cheers.