The Secret of Maintaining Successful Long-distance Creative Partnerships with Sqalisu Ngcobo & Levi Dry of Umsindo Musiek

0:00:11 - Nasiphi Zwane
Levi, you said you're on holiday in Greece. Sqalisu said you woke us up this early because you're on holiday. 

0:00:17 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
So you must suffer. 

0:00:19 - Nasiphi Zwane
And now it ends. But how are you guys sort of operating? You know one of you being in Greece, one of you being in German, But as you've been operating with Levi being in Germany and Sqalisu in Derby, is it any different at all? It's the same vibes. 

0:00:34 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Basically, it's been obviously something that we've been working on for. I mean, what is it like three years now? I think we're three years old, yeah, this November. In the beginning it was difficult, but it's something that we dedicated on working on, because communication whether you're a thousand miles away or you're always close to each other communication is always difficult And it's just about working on it and figuring out what works and what doesn't work. And so, yeah, it has been difficult, but we've been able to sort out sort of systems and we're not just business partners, We're not just creative partners, we're friends and we're brothers actually. So it's just been working on our relationship and that way we've worked on communicating. And then, obviously, seeing each other six months ago now was obviously a great help, because we were able to sit down and actually face to face, figure out where we're going, how to structure everything And yeah, so it's been tough, but we got there. 

0:01:34 - Levi Dry
We're there now A lot of WhatsApp calls, video calls, and when scoring up with them. 

0:01:45 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Yeah, Mike, that's also just another one. 

0:01:48 - Nasiphi Zwane
You know, it's actually kind of. it's just kind of cool, you know, seeing that you guys have been able to hold this down for so long, because I was actually just looking back to you know, some of the interviews you've done in the past maybe six years or so, and you'll find that some of those aren't even like making stuff anymore together. Some people you know, fell out. 

Some people just stopped doing what they're doing. How have you guys been able to keep it going so long? You know just both the business and your friendship, the partnership that you guys have going. 

0:02:18 - Levi Dry
I mean I think it's going back to some words. I'm just saying it's just communication really. I mean, for the first like year, it was pretty tough. There's a lot of personal things and a lot of respectively that were kind of happening And yeah, but once, like things kind of settled down a little bit, we were able to just kind of find a rhythm that works for us And yeah, I think, like a lot of texting, a lot of sending stuff like music back and forth or messages, ideas, like just constantly creating like a mood board, if you will, of like ideas and suggestions or like criticism about like each other stuff, And yeah, it's just like when you're able to respect each other's ideas and opinions. 

I mean that's why we started it. What we do now is because we both had like a high level of understanding and respect for each other's creative ideas and creative work And we were able to communicate that like easily and effectively, because I think when we say we don't like something or we think it could be done in a different way or more refined, And no one says it's hard, because there's a bit of like respect with each other. 

0:03:41 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Yeah, like I was saying, like in the beginning it was, it was lots of personal endeavors that we were going through Levi's first time and studying abroad. You know what I'm saying. I'm also, i was also this side, studying this side, and and just the appreciation of each other's time. The creative part of them seemed to music is always going to be there, no matter what's going on around us. So if I'm not there, levi's always there to carry. If Levi is not obviously here for a show, i'm always here to carry. You know what I'm saying. So it was just appreciation of time and just the understanding that we're patient and we're building. As long as I'm seeing the music stay, we're both there. 

0:04:20 - Nasiphi Zwane
So, yeah, i'm getting, i'm getting. Basically, you know it's. It runs off the fundamentals. You know which would be. You know, to trust each other. I'm obviously perseverance, not rushing anything, and it's really incredible to it's like what you guys are pulling off is really insane, and we even touched on it in the last episode that we did together. You know about the admiration that I've got for what you guys are doing, and what's actually wild is that, on top of the business, something that we that Levi was mentioning, you know before we got into the thick of things is that you guys have been releasing individually as well. 

So tell me a bit more about that. Who can we start with? At least you just went on, Levi. Tell me about some of your releases, bro. 

0:05:00 - Levi Dry
So recently I dropped my, my first release and I was called and here and me And I was just kind of like this cool that you break the thing that I kind of had to drop, because when you sit up like you're publishing, you have to drop something so that the nature release can drop like quickly. And there's other issues and the second, second release I would actually consider more of my official release to those first tracks and the music in the name of it was feel and it's just like super powerful vocals and great, great piano. I mean I'm kind of like it was my first release, that I was like the first track. At that time, you know, i was happy with what I was producing, to be honest, and I mean forever my ears changing and getting better and more experienced and still quite like young into it. 

So that was my most recent release, which was about eight months ago, which is quite long, and it's just something I'm trying to change at the moment. But also kind of going back on to the thing where I'm not like super, super big on Russian things. But what will be happening is a lot of releases of the song who labels? we have some friends that are not releasing under their label also some big labels on the inside And yeah, just trying to produce great clever music and things that can translate, whether you're just chilling or transcending many emotions and feelings, but mainly for the global. 

0:06:50 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
So we also be releasing an EP together, so a collaborative from Cymdome Music EP at the end of this year for the summer, because we're both summer boys, like I feel like Lira and I are just both for the sun, for the warmth, and our music sort of resonates that good feel vibe. 

Now I think about most artists are actually smart by releasing music at this at that time of year. But, yeah, besides that, we will be dropping an EP around September, which also just correlates with the time of our birthday, so we'll have a lot of stuff happening around then. So, yeah, the music that we're making at the moment is is for myself as a producer, it's figuring out my sound. It's figuring out, like, the things that I enjoy, because obviously influenced by a lot of stuff, influenced by jazz, by that South African house stuff, but also largely influenced by that European sound as well. So, yeah, it's just figuring that out And hopefully what we do produce is going to be appreciated by our fan base and we'll go on and on. So yeah, that's where we are with music. 

0:07:53 - Nasiphi Zwane
That's really dope guys. I think it's sort of inspired you guys wanting to sort of release an EP, because this is something that I posted recently on the page as well, where I took out a section of an interview we did with peasants where they were basically saying that nowadays it's more about people want something that they can consume quickly, like that's why maybe some artists would go for like a single release as opposed to like a full body of work type thing. 

0:08:18 - Levi Dry
So yeah, i mean yeah, yeah, go for it, bro. I mean I think I do understand what you're saying and a lot of people do think like that kind of way. It's like vocals have to hit in the first seven seconds, the track needs to be two minutes long, and sure I'm happy for them. It's just not the way we do it. I think a lot of the times, like with social media content getting shorter and shorter, that's okay. 

I think it just depends on the track as well, like especially in dance music, and what's the person doing at the moment. Like a track to be two minutes doesn't really make sense. But also it's just a feeling. A track can be four minutes, it can be six minutes. I just got a track now that will be also released in August. That's 10 minutes long, but then it feels like two minutes. 

I think you also, if you're great at making music or you think you're good at making music, the track is able to feel like it just moves and it like grooves and doesn't feel like a 10 minute song or doesn't feel like a seven minute song. But also I mean, if you remember where this kind of music comes from, it's like you had guys who are not playing two minute tracks. You got the guys who are playing six to 10 minute tracks. I prefer personally. I prefer being on the longer side, just because it gives a little bit more time to build any motion. Also makes it a little bit easier for DJs, which then the end of the day is who's playing your music? So I think that's a little more on that side. 

0:10:00 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
I was fortunate enough this past Thursday to attend a show by I don't know if you guys know a Santé, a Santé and friends. They had a show at La Parada in Umhlanga and there was a DJ I forget his name and he played a variety of older tracks, like it was. they were probably like post 2010 South African House songs. Really appreciated the set, just because I feel like the music that is being produced for interest are rock sort of fast production doesn't last long at all. A year from now, two years from now, we're not really listening to that music anymore. So it's imperative for us to try and make music that lasts, try and make music that people will resonate with, even maybe, when we're gone. So we want to make sure that it's mature enough for people to listen to today, but also rich enough for people to listen to maybe tomorrow, the next year, the year after. 

0:11:05 - Levi Dry
So we also just changed. 

0:11:06 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Just for a little bit of background, we changed our sort of creative model. We recently partnered with an event called Take Me Later, which was that festival that we had in December. Music never really was supposed to be Van Culture. Van Culture sort of fell into our hands early 2021, and we rode with it for a while, but it's not really where we at. So we've changed our models and maybe doing two shows a year, so that one Take Me Later show at the end of the year and our individual show, which will figure out wherever it will be within the year, so that will be a two-show model. So yeah, like at the moment, we're working on our music. So it does feel as though music is sort of quiet, but it's just in a process. We're in a process of releasing music, we're in a process of creating an EP, so it's not obviously out there like most events. We're not really pushing marketing, we're not pushing things like that. We're just at a place of process and creation and once that comes to fruition, we'll be out there again. 

0:12:17 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, 100% and pretty like so much insights. I'm absolutely loving this When we talking about timeless music, as you guys mentioned. I don't know if you can dive into this a bit deeper, but obviously with the joint. EP coming out in September. you must love all your songs, But what is that one song that you guys feel like, hey, we've hit the nail right in the head here, and how did you guys actually know that it's a timeless song? This is it, good question. 

0:12:43 - Levi Dry
When I send it to my mom and she's not like this, something like that. Thank you. 

0:12:50 - Nasiphi Zwane
Love it, girl. Yeah, yeah. 

0:12:53 - Levi Dry
If she's not bored within 10 seconds. No, i'm joking. I mean, both like Skrull and I have quite a great network and a list of mentors that we'll send stuff to. And, of course, for me personally, there's always times where you produce a track in four or two to four hours and it's just like worth everything, it's just like good and everything is perfect. And then there's this track set like you wake up or you're going to bed in the evening or morning and you're looking at the ceiling and you're punching yourself in the head like, fuck, why can't I just get this song working? 

And then sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. I think it's just about creating as much stuff as possible without thinking, oh, this has to be the best song ever, because in the end of the day, music's subjective And you may think it's the most crazy shit. Personally, every track I make is amazing. I'm kidding. There's always a timeline. I mean there's also testing, like so sending it to friends and them teaching. 

Fortunately, we also have friends who are teaching every weekend, so it's like slip this track, see how it's working, give me feedback, which also I think is nice, because you kind of create this conversation Between artists And I mean everyone has a different opinion. And yeah, i think personally right now, like I have a couple of favorite records, and this one I just produced recently with Cam I think will be one of those situations where it's a track that will transcend Don's Falls 15 years from now. Hopefully we'll see Also like with the glasses going on as EP. I think the ethos of it is just like having fun and making something that maybe you wouldn't expect from the both of us when you think of what we do. 

0:15:02 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
There is a track that Levi said recently that honestly, maybe almost tear up. It was so beautiful. It's like I don't think he was going for it But for me it spoke so much house. We're close with the. It used to be a trio, now duo, from Cape Town And they were super like house aesthetic vibes stay true, inspired kid funk, inspired boys And we spent a lot of time with them in December And I think it kind of it resonates like they, their aura, their influence sort of hit us Because he dropped this track around that same time or not drop the track. He made the track around the same time And it was super South African housey And it's not. It's not generally where where I'm seeing the music is. We're more like Afro house vibes, but this was like a very South African house, like you know, back in the day track, So beautiful And I'm actually excited you didn't drop that name because I just I'll stop another track. 

I will not be dropping that name, But I'm also me and a producer named, now renamed on Lizzie. Check out the boys. be mindful on Instagram, and Lizzie as well. Shout out to those guys Oh 100%, 100%. Guys, you also mentioned. 

0:16:25 - Nasiphi Zwane
We have to touch on, obviously, the tour that you guys did together. Levi, you mentioned it as well. Tell us a bit about you know, your tour and how you guys got to setting that up and if it was a success or not. 

0:16:36 - Levi Dry
Yeah, i mean, i think it was a success. I guess, like I think, when you meet cool people and you make new connections, it's always, it's always nice and always cool to to be together. 

0:16:46 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Well, first he was successful. Just for us to be together, bro, true, true. 

0:16:51 - Levi Dry
Yo, three years later. Yeah, that's true, it goes right. Maybe I should start off with that, but I mean, i hadn't seen each other for for some years and yeah, and finally we were able to be reconnected. So that was probably one of the biggest successes. I played like 13 shows in like about three weeks or no, it wasn't 13. Just under 13 shows in three weeks. So it was quite, quite intense and screwing out. Try to play as much together as possible. 

How it came about was, I guess I just saw a winter coming and I was like getting nervous, i got anxious, i was like whoa And made a, made a couple phone calls and some good friends were able to help with connecting me with some people. And yeah, and then I was able to get some like booking. So Squiz and I, and there was a time where him and I were able to sit down with each other and make some music, talk about the future and DJ together, have some sparkling water together Not at all, no, tequila is no mass. So yeah, it was. It was a time where we were able to drink together and eat together and celebrate together. So, yeah, and it was nice to be back in South Africa. I mean, when you haven't been back to the land where you're from for so long, you kind of forget what it's like And yeah, it was just amazing in every single right. It's also nice to see how our country is still, like, so beautiful and the people so beautiful, despite, like, the things that have happened, you know, in the last years. It's also crazy to see, like, how there's other parts of South Africa that aren't doing so well, you know, and no, i mean, durban alone is quite dismal, but still was an amazing crowd and people love to party and it's why we're there, you know, to have fun and DJ, play some good music. I mean, i'll show it. 

Cmo was interesting, i'd say it's the best word to put it, because it's, you know, as anything that's expected, like when you're away from each other for so many years, like there's also things that clash and things that don't work in different levels of what you want to play or what you want to do or what you want to communicate through your sets. There's also a lot of lack of sleep, because I mean it was like that a couple days before that festival was stuck on a bus in the middle of nowhere for like two days, which was just chaotic in the least, but yeah, i'd say that's where it went really smoothly and finished off with an absolute bang at the Saint-François Festival. Proud was pretty young but was great, and the hardbox boys know how to throw a party. Shout out to Mark Glass. He's a guy who runs subculture in Cape Town and yeah, he also knows how to throw a really good throw down, if you will. 

And yeah, just overall, i was able to play some clubs in South Africa that I wanted to play since I was a kid And yeah, it was just an amazing experience. And over everything I'm seeing the music and also what Skrull and I stand for is collaboration. I think we are probably our biggest ethos and it's so far being quite nice for doing quite nice for us. I think when you're able to take compared to just taking an individual and their thoughts and actually like making kind of like a big brain, i guess you could say where people are from different experiences and different opinions, it's cooler to put together a couple people and see what y'all can think of, versus just one person doing everything, because, also, people are limited. 

0:21:17 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
So our tour really opened us. Opened us like up, obviously, into a new scene, Like it was the first time we had introduced ourselves to people from the West. So lots of guys obviously that we had it known and had a network with before we were able to network with when we're in Cape Town We're also able to attend some festivals and conversations were obviously very insightful with such a saturated market like Cape Town, You know it happens all the time Thursday it's going down, Friday it's going down, Saturday it's going down, Sunday it's going down. 

Whereas in Durban, you know, it's obviously it's a lot less, and so, yeah, it was really dope to meet new people. It was dope to see some friends and some artists that are from Durban that obviously live in Cape Town And, yeah, it was great, it was a nice time to have some fresh air. Obviously, i hadn't been to Cape Town that whole year, so it was nice to get back into Cape Town. We almost spent Christmas together. We were supposed to spend Christmas together, but I couldn't do it. I had to come home. 

0:22:23 - Levi Dry
It was over for me. 

0:22:25 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Obviously, we hadn't mixed together for what? since high school. And then the first night was absolutely great. It was an unplanned show after the Jameson Festival Fuck, we went to a club and then, yeah, we just played the last hour, the closing scene. 

0:22:45 - Levi Dry
Our friend of ours runs an event series that happens every Wednesday. there called Soul Shakers, two guys, dylan and Pariah. 

0:22:56 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Shout out Pariah as well, bro. 

0:22:57 - Levi Dry
Yeah, and for those shout outs out, here we're putting you on. We're taking our artist archive that we know and putting you there. 

0:23:06 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, I mean, it's about expanding that network, you know. So it's all good. Where does the next time we can actually see Scottie Swain and Levi Dry playing together? You know, give us times, locations, dates, the works. 

0:23:18 - Levi Dry
Whoa and Christian, something I should ask myself. And Yeah, No, I'm kidding. So I think, with regards to the two shows a year, it's respectively to Obscenium Music, where we're throwing so many events at a point Sometimes it's just going back on our philosophy, It's like not rushing things And at the beginning they were working And then towards the end they weren't working Because there's just too much to repetitive, too much same thing, new same things. Basically, we just decided for our own shows, like, respectively, we'll DJ as much as we get booked and as much as we feel like DJing. 

But it was more of just like the two shows a year we wanted to do like two productions. That is just like a life-changing experience, if you will, And something that is just so highly refined and so great. Also, school now are the kind of DJs who would be like if we had the ability to be together, we wouldn't book other DJs, we would just DJ the whole night And we would do a 12-hour show. Also, you can just look at us the whole time, which is a blessing in itself. 

0:24:29 - Nasiphi Zwane
I can go. I'm blessed right now. I agree Good there we go. 

0:24:34 - Levi Dry
That's what I was waiting for, that's what I'm for And anything. But yeah, i think the Omsi No Productions. We wanted it to be an occasion and more of like a public holiday type situation than every weekend type thing. But there will come a time in our future where school now would be DJing every weekend in our near future, but in our long-term goals. 

I think there's still a debate that I'm having with myself whether I might come back to South Africa at the end of this year. So maybe we'll save off the production to be there and most likely be either Cape Town or Joeburg. So it just depends, like let's see. But I'd say more towards like the later part of this year where you're going to take the TML collaboration and the IKAYA collaboration as like rolling it off into this year. Because, yeah, this first like six months has been more of an exploratory stage for Squiz and I, like specifically in the discipline of music and production phases. So I'd say, let's see, but definitely at the end of this year, even if I don't come back to South Africa, we'll probably maybe do one in Berlin, then also one in Derwent, first of all, maybe Cape Town. 

0:26:02 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Let's see. So to solidate we. Obviously we don't 100% know when we're going to see each other, but the goal and what we're working towards at the moment is definitely myself heading over to B-Town to see the scene, to get a mix of the environments, which is obviously necessary, not just because I want a holiday, but because I generally just need to see my play and I need to get into the scene that side, and then obviously we'll thank me later. So, like we were saying, the two shows when we say shows, we mean like us hosting. So us hosting an event, so Thank Me Later is an entity on its own. 

It's not a I'm seeing the music entity. It's not a hot box entity. It's not an Akai entity. It's not a low tech create entity. It's all of us together. We're joined in collaboration there. It even has its own Instagram profile. So, yeah, it's a baby that we've all invested in. We've invested a lot of time. I remember the week of Thank Me Later was I was so tired. We worked every day until like 12, just to even like two in the morning, just to get the place set up. 

0:27:11 - Levi Dry
Obviously, just great working with people that you don't really know, But that was also when Squirrel was stuck on a bus for like two days. So yeah. And so good reason to be tired. 

0:27:21 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
It was super tiring. The whole week was just madness, And so yeah. So we'll have those TML shows and then we'll have EnemSynda music. This year it will probably be in celebration of our birthday, because we haven't celebrated EnemSynda music before and it's three years down the line now and it needs to. We need to throw a super bash. 

0:27:44 - Levi Dry
Also bring down the third of EnemSynda Robin from Australia, maybe Dulac and All Night. 

0:27:50 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Long. Yeah, we need. that's literally what we want to do Every time we plan a show. the first option is always an All Night Long, one of us playing. 

0:27:59 - Levi Dry
Like, can we? 

0:28:00 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
play just about something. Obviously, we always end up wanting to get other people involved and wanting to get other soundscapes and stuff And any, because like clubs don't always like the fact that they like in South Africa. 

0:28:12 - Levi Dry
They don't really understand that like one or two DJs can play like the whole night. In Berlin, it's a super common thing and the rest of the world. It's a really common thing. I get it though, because also Squirrel's and I aren't like famous, so we get it. 

0:28:26 - Nasiphi Zwane
Get out of here. You're famous to me. 

0:28:30 - Levi Dry
So that's why it's also nice to then involve like our friends or people that we like in our events. 

0:28:36 - Nasiphi Zwane
That's absolutely amazing, guys, and it makes so much sense. I guess all that's left now is for us to basically find out as to where exactly we can find all the gig guides and where the sort of central hub for us to get all the details and the information of the upcoming gigs could possibly be. 

0:28:52 - Levi Dry
So I mean, i know for a fact, like Squirrel's and I both like we're trying to get a website and one thing we actually haven't spoken about that, but I just had an idea when you said that maybe we'll do like a letter, like an email that you can subscribe to, where I'll just like basically talk about us for like once a week and send through like also that's one thing that we wanted to just create like a whole community. We'll send like unreleased stuff, like unreleased links to like our song cloud where you can listen to what we're doing, because I can also see how it's frustrating. You can see like we're working on like a lot of music, but you can't like really hear it. So maybe we'll do like a little temporary link that you can like listen to. At the moment it's more through our respective social media things, so I basically just use Instagram. 

0:29:43 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
I'm at Yaskere underscore UMS, ums, science Forms, syndrome Music. And then I'm also at Yaskere as well on LinkedIn, as you can check me out there. But yeah, it's very interesting. And then also SoundCloud as well, at Yaskere, at UMS, on SoundCloud. I've got mixes up there. I'll find you then. 

0:30:04 - Levi Dry
Yeah, just leave my drive cross everything. 

0:30:07 - Nasiphi Zwane
Oh, you're in LinkedIn as well. 

0:30:08 - Levi Dry
Yeah, of course, bro. LinkedIn was the first thing I ever downloaded. I've been a business man doing since like since the early ages. I'm kidding. Download it in like 2021. 

0:30:21 - Nasiphi Zwane
I saw you taking shots at LinkedIn, dude. I saw that from Bastic Side Eye. 

0:30:25 - Levi Dry
No, no, i respect LinkedIn. It's not actually mad with LinkedIn. 

0:30:31 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
It's just kind of a website. 

0:30:33 - Nasiphi Zwane
Are you guys making connections through LinkedIn like have you ever gotten a gig through there? 

0:30:36 - Levi Dry
Yeah, i have like two friends on LinkedIn. 

0:30:41 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
No I haven't made any connections, but it definitely is a platform for connection. 

0:30:47 - Levi Dry
Especially like brand endorsements and stuff that maybe we'll be doing in the future. 

0:30:52 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
For all creators listening to this download LinkedIn. And then link us when you're done. 

0:30:57 - Levi Dry
But then please follow me, because I only have one. 

0:31:00 - Nasiphi Zwane
LinkedIn should pay us for this promo. We're plugging. 

0:31:03 - Levi Dry
But that's also why I was like being quiet. 

0:31:06 - Nasiphi Zwane
I don't like to. Guys, it's been absolutely incredible having you guys on. Are there any parting words that you have for anyone that's been supporting your journey? 

0:31:16 - Sqalisu Ngcobo
Download Ableton or something and make music, and to those that have been following us for the longest time. we appreciate you guys And to all the creators out there just be patient, take your time, breathe. Don't forget to breathe, bro. 

0:31:29 - Nasiphi Zwane
And don't forget to check out all things sludge underground on our website, www.sludgeunderground.com We've just released some brand new beanies. It's the best way that you can support the show, so do get one for yourself this winter. Until next time, it is bye for now.