kyabo | Thriving As An Alternative Artist In South Africa

0:00:11 - Nasiphi Zwane
How's it going, ladies and gentlemen? It's Nasiphi Zwane and I'm back with another episode of Sludge Underground podcast. I'm back with a brand new guest for you, one of the most incredible artists. I was actually listening to their project, ego, and I was just incredibly excited because it's 10 solid tracks on there and I definitely have a few favorites and I feel like we need to touch on a lot of them and a lot of the features as well. But I'm gonna let our guest introduce themselves and let us know if they are you know what they're about and we'll basically take it from there.  

0:00:48 - Kyabo
Oh my god, that was so nice. Hi, I'm Kyabo. I'm an experience child. I'm joking. Yeah, I basically. I'm a songwriter. I basically dabble and like borrowing pop, if that makes sense. I kind of take pop and put it with other little genre blends. 

0:01:06 - Nasiphi Zwane
Hey, that is awesome. It's a very beautiful blend. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think I've heard anything similar, you know, to the sort of sound that you're making. Give me some of your influences here, because I feel like a bruma now, because when we were setting up and trying to arrange, I feel like there are people out there that would know where some of these influences actually come from. But for someone who's a lay person, such as myself, this is a new sound to me. It's beautiful. So what are some of the influences here when it comes to, maybe, mainstream artists? 

0:01:36 - Kyabo
Mainstream artists. Oh, I will definitely throw in basically Frank Ocean, troy Savant, taylor Swift, tavlo, charlie XCX just a lot of pop figures really influenced me. I've been getting into Kanye as well lately, especially for like Ego, like during that era, like Kanye was someone who popped up out of nowhere for me and then I was just like, okay, damn, this is how it goes, yeah, but yeah, those are the ones that can list like off the top of my head, yeah. 

0:02:09 - Nasiphi Zwane
You know, I actually sort of had this assumption that Frank Ocean might have been there, because I remember when I was listening to Ego and I was like, hmm, let me, I haven't really listened. The only Frank Ocean I've ever listened to was the stuff that he's done with Tyler and I was like, okay, wait, let me actually let me go listen to channel Orange and then see if maybe this, you know if there's some influences in there. But what I can actually say, though, is that your sound is different enough for someone to not be like yo. It's a direct sort of you know it's. It's literally like a direct copy form. Say, for example, frank Ocean, like you do so well in, you know, being in your own lane, having enough of the influence, but not take away from the artist that you are. You know it sounds completely original, and such how much planning actually goes into that. Is this something that's just organic or does it just sort of you know what are the vibes there? 

0:03:05 - Kyabo
Oh, it's super organic. I basically I treat every song actually as like a new thing. It's a miracle sometimes that they can like end up on an album, to be really honest. But, um, yeah, it's just every single time like it's okay, let's go. What are we doing now? My feel this melody it's never really I need to make a song that feels like this, so whatever, because every time I try doing that it's never, ever, ever anything good, to be honest. So, yeah, it's pretty organic, like the process is very organic. 

0:03:34 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, let's jump into into that project. So I know you. You've got something that you released in like this year as well. That is absolutely incredible too, um, but you obviously had to lay down the foundation. One of my favorite tracks, um on Ego is obviously Wings. Wings is one of them. Um, there's Braggadocio is one of them. The features that you had on there absolutely incredible. I don't know how you got that together, but you're gonna tell me about it. Let's start off with Wings. You know it's got a very, very lovely alt sort of sound. That's why I was sort of attracted to it, because I that is very much the sort of stuff that I listen to. Um, so how did Wings sort of come about? Wings? So? 

0:04:15 - Kyabo
Wings actually started. We it was in 2021 actually um, uncle and I were sessioning more and more and more and I probably I got there for a session one day. We had just finished recording another song for the project that didn't make it called Memories. We uncle played this voice memo he had taken, like in the middle of the night, like the first few lyrics, and I was just like, okay, we have to continue with that, we have to finish it off. Then we just decided, okay, it's just gonna be purely guitar, because it's sound that that alt sound I really liked, that we could play around with. Like the movement was just the one instrument. Shoka Sunflower came on board. We were writing with him as well. It was just a really good time. We were really, really sad that session. 

It was a really like. It feels like everyone lowkey, had everything, like had something in their heart and like we were just kind of like just dealing with the idea of like doing music when it seems just not doable or, like you know, not lucrative or anything. I hope that's a word. There's a certain heaviness I can't ignore when I hear that song now, because it came from a place of just like frustration. But we stayed hopeful and you know like the song is manifesting itself. You know, because what is this line? My favorite line on there is you know that I'm more than I ever could be. Oh my god, that's just like really smack writing it's yeah. 

0:05:36 - Nasiphi Zwane
I love wings. Yeah, it's definitely a favorite for me as well, and it's just getting that insight in terms of the vibes that were there. When you guys are making it, do you feel like sadness inspires, you know, great artistry in a way, or do you feel like you can actually make something beautiful while happy as well? 

0:05:55 - Kyabo
Yes, you can definitely make something beautiful. While happy wings was one of the few times that we were in the moment feeling something otherwise, like I take I need to have like gone past the situation to be able to like look back at it objectively and write about it, because I actually know how I actually felt, because I struggled with how I feel in the moment. Like right now let's say I'm not okay, I won't know what, okay, I probably will know it's annoying me. So that like kind of blockage doesn't help my songwriting either. So I do much better like writing looking back at a situation. 

0:06:26 - Nasiphi Zwane
It's a very incredible formula. As I said, you know I've got a lot of favorites on the project, which obviously, moving on to Braggadocio, I absolutely love this. The features how did you guys get together? I think Wolf is dead and isn't there. Fele isn't there. How did you guys link up? 

0:06:42 - Kyabo
Oh, Braggadocio. Braggadocio was like ooh, ooh, ooh. The first song where I was like, okay, shoot, the album is making sense, like that was like the first song for me. But how we got that together is Uncle produced it, right? Uncle likes coming over and just like leaving me with like so many beats, like it's always, like it's just like a process of ours, like obsession, and then he just be like, okay, here's some extra. So I had Braggadocio was one of the extras I got. I heard it and I was like so nervous because I was like, okay, this is something I've definitely never done. But then, as I was listening, more because of Ego you mentioned that this is like the features and stuff Ego's built on the backbone of collaboration, like without the essence of collaboration and every single sense of it, from the photography to the mixing to the writing, like my. 

I went into that process with a list of people. I was like I want to work with everyone here and let's, yeah, I got it done. So when I heard Braggadocio, it was much easier to get Wolf and Fele on this time because we had worked on another song that might come out soon. I can't say much there, but that was like the track, like the title track for the project, right, but it just wasn't done in time for it to come out. 

But then, however, Braggadocio happened. So I called Wolf for a session because I knew that, okay, he would sound amazing on it and we could do like this really nice back and forth. I've always wanted to do that, I think. Then Wolf and I had written up to like the end of our respective parts together, because we were in the same session. When it came to like this last section, we were just like, okay, what happens now? Because we just couldn't figure anything out. And then we just had a light bulb we called Fele. Fele pulled through, she recorded a crazy verse. I was literally in tears when I heard it and yeah, that is Braggadocio. 

0:08:28 - Nasiphi Zwane
There's this part in the song where the synth just goes crazy. I think it's when just as she's about to enter, if I'm all mistaken. But the synth just goes crazy. And was that Uncle? 

0:08:41 - Kyabo
Uncle. Yes, he basically was my main collaborator on the project. He really was. 

0:08:47 - Nasiphi Zwane
Uncle's a beast. It's insane. One of the things that makes the project that incredible. And I see now when you say that Secret Spice must have been Uncle. Were you guys all in the studio like at the same time, or was it sort of like you and Uncle started it off and then sent it through to Wolf was dead and so on? What was the studio session like when I got Braggadocio. 

0:09:06 - Kyabo
I think we were working on another song. I don't remember the other song, but I remember that session was purely me and Wolf sitting with what Uncle had sent to me, and then Wolf and I were just heading back and forth. I think we even, like, sent those to thingy, to Uncle, actually to kind of change some things. But we were happy with the song. There were two versions. I do remember that, yes, there were two versions of it. So Uncle heard our, me and Wolf's version and then did some little facelift stuff and then to kind of accommodate how it goes right now, and then we sent it to Fele, then Fele sent it back, Fele and I session together once, but not for anything on Ego, like Fele was not in the room but Wolf was. 

0:09:45 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, that's absolutely beautiful. There's also this amazing guitar riff that you got in it's 5512. Who was on guitar for that? Who did that Now? 

0:09:55 - Kyabo
that's one of my favorite sessions. There's a thing when, like, musicians meet, man yo, it's so crazy. So last year I lived with Dia, who's also credited on the song the Other Vocalist she and I were roommates with this other guy, kai, as well. This was a song that all three of us did together, so we all wrote together, but Dia's on guitar. Basically, we used to have so many nights we would just be like, let's do something, let's write, and then, like I was going through something very, or I had just come out of a situation that basically left me into, like the session to write 5512 with Dia. 

But that song took months. In the sense of like I don't know if you probably do, because you've heard it it's kind of two parts. There's that first section and then there's the second section where all the drums and stuff come in. The second section was done first. That was supposed to be called Dia's interlude, because Dia has an interlude or song credit in every single one of my projects, since, like my first EP, it's kind of like a thing to have to like work with her. But the last part happened first. It was called Dia's interlude. 

I actually didn't like it at first. I was like no, this can't be the song, it doesn't make sense. I was just like no, no, no, no. And Dia was just like come on, we can do this, so, whatever. So that alone took months and then the first part of the song was called Not you, not you. We got done in like a week because it was very like easy. We just won the ball writing and stuff. And then, yeah, the crazy guitar. Yeah, yeah, dia is insane. She's so crazy with it. I enjoy everyone who I worked with it's music aside from like knowing them or being their friends, like I'm, I listen. So, yeah, dia just bought this, this really earthy tone to the project as well, which I really thought was a breath of fresh air. It was very important that there's different tone colors happening in the 10 songs as well, you know. 

0:11:38 - Nasiphi Zwane
Definitely definitely, and you guys really pulled it off so well. There they get to shine. I feel like it's it's as you say, it's like a collaborative sort of effort. There's enough of you so that you know that the show is, you know about, you know, we know we the main actors, but at the same time, there's enough of them sprinkled on for them to shine through as well, which is absolutely beautiful. That's why I was saying it's one of the best sort of experiences that I've had. You know, listening to something from South Africa, which also leads me to to jumper, jumper as well, featuring fancy, which is another favorite of mine. Tell me, tell me about that one briefly as well. 

0:12:12 - Kyabo
Jumper came the same time. Braggadocio did. I am short. In that very week I was like toying around. What to do? Braggadocio? I just started love and writing jumper like the further. 

Yeah, like I was in love, I was so in love so it was just like, damn, let's go. I reckon right, love songs now. And then I think I left it alone for like a while before I even decided to add fence. It was gonna be like a really short interlude, but then as I went on with it, I was just like, hmm, I do want to hear more from the song. It was literally gonna be like 30, 40 seconds. It was not gonna be like the song it is now. I think I don't even call it an interview anymore, I think because of like how it got extended. It's still a short song, I know. 

And since it was more than happy to like come and session. So we had a writing session where I kind of already had like my little chorus bits on. I had a play verse, but I didn't like bring that out because I felt like it was horrible. And then, yeah, we came, we wrote. I have pictures, actually, from all these sessions. I remember I can literally see how she was sitting. It was really cool. We just wrote about love man it was a really easy one jumbo is really easy, even to the recording I had recorded separately. 

Fence, recorded On her side, got it together. Yeah, that was one of the most easier songs to go about. Like it was so easy. Actually, what an easy process. Because usually it's like Trying to get people for sessions or waiting for verses takes months or whatnot oh, what not you know. Then say that was a really easy, easy process. 

0:13:37 - Nasiphi Zwane
I enjoyed that very much you know, and when I was, you know, listening to to basically your discog, it also then took me back a bit. I wanted to also just find out, after I listened to ego, you know what sort of stuff you're making in the initial stages, and it sort of took me to to faking it and what I found is that, you know, faking it is very explicit, like the stuff, the imagery and what you talking about. On there. You paint a great vivid, you know picture and image and stuff. It's very risque and stuff, some of the stuff that you saying on there. Would you say that maybe you've dumbed it down a bit over time or would you still do you still sort of get some of those? 

0:14:16 - Kyabo
I don't know how to answer that one, because I will say, like there was this, like an abashedness that I had, because I wrote that when I was 15, by the way, wow. 

0:14:26 - Nasiphi Zwane
Incredible. 

0:14:29 - Kyabo
I was. I was 15 when that happened, so like and I remember really just Letting it all out and stuff I will say, like the older you get, the more guarded you become, as well with content and stuff. And also I kind of really felt embarrassed, like every time my mom would listen to this, to the song I just be like because she didn't like my music and I'm just like that you have to play this one. Like I'm talking about penises here, bro, like what do you mean? Well, let me just say I haven't been called to write anything that graphic. Yeah, I haven't felt the need to. So I don't know if I am purposefully dumbing it down or it's just when it's in front of you. Catch it. I just haven't seen it to catch it in front of me. But oh no, I would definitely do that again. Like there's nothing I change about that song, despite me being embarrassed about it. That's actually one of my first favorite song. That was my first favorite song. Shape. 

0:15:18 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean the fact that you're 15 when you wrote that makes it even better, because at 15, you know you just coming out and you just say fuck it. You know, and I feel like it's a very dope introduction To, to the artist that you are. It's an incredible intro. I feel you did a really good job there, despite what your mom might think. 

0:15:40 - Kyabo
She likes the song. She just doesn't like the fact that I'm talking about penises. 

0:15:45 - Nasiphi Zwane
Listen, tell me, tell me, tell me about the relationship with your mom. You mentioned you cited Kanye being one of your aspirations. We know the the relationship that he had with with his mom. How's your relationship with your mom and how does she feel about the music that you're making? 

0:16:02 - Kyabo
the music, okay, wait can I just say, though I I started listening to Kanye for ego basically like during that time, I wouldn't say like it's my info just just just because I know some people would hear this and be like you're lying. 

My relationship with my mom oh my god, it's probably Up there for like one of the best relationships I've had I have. She's really supportive, like in anything I decide to do, honestly, like she's always the first one down, like I can really like call her about anything you know and she'll understand, and like she'll, she'll reposts, she'll listen. When I had a show Lot on Friday, a sound check with narrow by, and she was literally I don't think I was even off stage and she was already like texting me about where are the videos. Like she's very supportive. Same with my dad. It's a really good relationship. Like I'm really happy that I have the parents I have. Actually, they really just Allow me the room to do what I want to do and they trust that I know what's best for myself too, which is really cool because a lot of people don't have that funny enough. 

0:17:12 - Nasiphi Zwane
Like yeah, yeah, that is very true, and a lot of the stuff as well that you write, I found, is very much centered around emotions like love and such relationships and so forth. When it comes to you writing about a relationship that you may have had with a significant other or partner, is this what is about one subject matter, or is it maybe just past experiences that you've had with, maybe different partners? Or is that one person that you're thinking about when you're making these? 

0:17:45 - Kyabo
It depends on the time frame, basically, but most of these songs are platonic, fun enough, like most of them are from platonic relationships. Some of them are love songs, but it's all about a time. Like I said earlier on, I kind of have to be out of something to look back at it and even write. That still counts for love songs and whatnot. It's a lot of different relationships, but for ego I will say the more love-focused stuff. Yeah, that was about one person. Yeah, two people. They were around the same time, like situations happened at the right. 

0:18:19 - Nasiphi Zwane
yeah, basically platonic and not yeah, listen, the artistry, just everything that you do music-wise is something that is very beautiful, something that I thoroughly enjoy, to an extent where I even went after I was listening to the project. I even went and I recommended it to Geronimo, one of my homies. You know that's a massive supporter of the show as well. He also makes incredible music and I was like, dude, please just listen to this discog. Because, yeah, absolutely incredible. I'm mind blown even to this day. 

But I feel like, at the same time, an artist like yourself, I personally feel like, should be getting a lot more flowers in this day and age. I personally feel like you, as an artist, should be someone that is in the mainstream right now, and I feel like it's not any fault of yours if that hasn't manifested. I just feel like it's the environments. You know South Africa sleeps on a lot of good stuff, so how would you say your experience has been, you know, as a South African artist? Do you feel like you're in the right space? Are you where you're supposed to be at the moment? 

0:19:28 - Kyabo
As a South African artist doing a genre that's not like South African hip-hop, or amapiano or gqom. Oh no, like it's crazy this side Like it's crazy. But I have this friend, yams, who basically I think he went to. He was in Portugal right now for Afrochela, always this weekend, and the first thing he texted me when he got to Europe was that like yo, south Africa is holding you back, you need to come this side. And I was just like okay. 

But despite all of that, I do kind of feel like there are more challenges when you're like an alternative, just an alternative being anything that's not mainstream. Here it's quite a crazy battle, like even just getting shows, getting booked for stuff. It's just there's not a lot for alternative artists here. But, with that being said, they are community stuff that are just like pushing like narrow by. I don't know if you've been to one this. 

We have this really cool event here called narrow by and they have they just bring all these, all artists together. We just always a good time, good DJs. It's amazing. And the artistic, like alternative community here is really fairly supportive. Like every time like I perform, I guess when I look out to the audience. It's really someone I know from that same community all the time, which is always there for each other. It's really cool. So the community is really good. It's just like you said, more flowers should be going to everyone, a part of it as well, because I feel like there's so there are so many Grammys sitting here, bro, like so many, like so many Grammys, so many number ones. We have such talent here and it's just it sucks that all to music here is just not taken seriously. It's crazy, like I can't believe it, because it's like you go listen to American all artists and you like ignore the ones right here. It's crazy. 

0:21:13 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah, you absolutely right. As we say, you know, the more flowers should be given to the old community. But what I do love is that the community is there and when you're within, that it's absolutely incredible. It beats anything you know that's out there in the mainstream. You know, I feel like it's it's set up for sort of a long term success and probably prospects to basically make it overseas as well, if you ever decide, you know, on moving there. But what else would you say? Sort of the music industry and being a South African artist, what would you say? It has taught you overall that you can sort of take away from it and apply into your everyday life. 

0:21:50 - Kyabo
Oh, wow, patience. Patience is so huge. I don't think I had any like sense of real patience before I decided to do music. Because there's so much waiting, like even from little things, like waiting for mixes, waiting for it, because you know, like everything within the process is its own art form, you know. I mean there's the production, there's the vocal production, which is like my favorite part, then there's mixing and mastering and stuff. So, like I used to like not be able to like wait for those, like off the finish, the song I would expect this is like back then, like 2018, but I would literally expect the engineer to literally have it by me in the morning and it just really didn't understand the motion and how everything goes and how everything is an art form in the process, you know. So patience is the biggest thing. I will say I've learned a lot about being outside as well, like how to actually be with people, with being in the community. I kind of always keep the same group of people. When it comes to that, patience is my biggest answer, though I think there's more to unpack under that, but it's my biggest answer completely Also, just making sure, waiting for the right time to put things out, waiting for the right seasons to like, because I've realized music is also very seasonal, like I don't know, some albums really make sense coming out, like in that November, summer time or spring. 

Some albums really make sense right now, in winter. Yeah, it's just learning to be patient and also trusting that what you are doing is worth it. I have a hard time believing that it's like worth it, but yeah, that's what being a South African artist here, that's what the South African industry has kind of taught me. And also don't trust everyone. A lot of people will lie and try to swindle you, but you just chest your gut and also trust your close confidants. Like it's not a don't be shy to ask for help as well. That's another one, that's a quick one, don't be shy. 

0:23:46 - Nasiphi Zwane
Very valid points. Very helpful as well. Kyabo very international, I love it oh thank you, it was inspired by the Kardashians. 

0:23:53 - Kyabo
With the K itself, or yeah, so my government name is Yabo. Like that's really like my full name, like it's Yabo. I've always like loved the Kardashians. I watched them all the time. I love them. They make sense. I was just playing around with, like what should my stage name be? 

And my first one was YB, because that's what they call me at home when like my nickname. But then I was just like no man, not that, and I was like let's put a chain for this, let's see how it goes. And it was pronounced like Kayabo for like a while and then, like I performed somewhere, then a friend, like while announcing me on, said Kyabo, and I was like that's wrong, but it sounds right. I'm gonna take that. Thank you, he's that friend we need to give them a shout out. 

Oh, yeah, yeah. Seema she is this beautiful genius visual artist. Yo, like you need to check, you need to check her stuff out. I will literally send you her stuff. She's insane, like she's insane. 

0:24:49 - Nasiphi Zwane
Oh my god, what? No, that's, that's absolutely wild. Please do you send me the stuff. I'm super, I'm immersed into your universe right now. That's how, like people just dive in there, just running off now, okay, you know, you touched on ego. We've touched on the features, what the industry has taught you, being a South African artist inside. So what is coming up? What is next for? For Kyabo, can we maybe expect a project? We briefly mentioned your drop in 2023 as well, the single that you, that you have out? What else can we sort of expect from you for the rest of this year? 

0:25:28 - Kyabo
So the plan is constantly changing, but Right now is the most secure it feels. So there'll be something special coming out this year, like towards the end of it, but not a new project, something special, that's all I'm gonna say with that, a few singles and stuff. I'm doing my final year in uni, so I'm also kind of like backtracking a bit, to kind of like ace that as well. If you want project T, 2024 is definitely the year my next project comes out, definitely like no questions asked. But yeah, that's basically a 2024 is the real project here. But yeah, right now Kyball is just gonna basically be an academic warrior for a minute. Do some shows when I can play some shows. You're in Durban, right? I? 

0:26:18 - Nasiphi Zwane
am yeah. 

0:26:18 - Kyabo
I'm so jealous. Okay, you know, do some shows if you ever decide hit me up but that's it for Kyball right now. 

0:26:24 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah what are you studying right now? That's actually really interesting. I'm studying as well. I study strategic communication, nice, so do you feel like that is something that will help when it comes to you being an artist? 

0:26:33 - Kyabo
Yeah, when it comes to like the whole education thing, actually I've tried my best to pick things that help with the whole thing about being an artist actually. So in high school I went to the nestles with the odds right, I focused on, I majored in music there, so I basically got a really good background on like just classical training. I'm a classically trained voice singer and guitar player, but don't ask me to play guitar for you, don't do that. 

But, um, that's where I kind of got like a lot of my base training there when it comes to like technical stuff, being able to actually sing properly and Perform. I also did a lot of theater there, which is really cool. So when it became time to kind of like decide what to do after I'm high school, I was like, okay, cool, I could do music and I'm you know whatever. But I just didn't feel called to. I kind of like wanted to see like a different aspect of like what I feel my brand will Challenge at some point, and I think strategic communications kind of deals with PR, marketing, advertising and all those principles and stuff. So I think it was really beneficial. I took it because I thought I thought it'd be beneficial for my whole artistic thing going on here. 

0:27:37 - Nasiphi Zwane
Thank you so much for joining me on this episode. It's been a really amazing experience. I've enjoyed being immersed in your universe. You know, from the moment I started listening to ego your latest drop and just you know the features that you told me about and doing this interview. I'm so grateful. Even you know you considering sludge being a platform that you know you're keen on getting on. Are there any sort of parts and words that you have for anyone that's been supporting? You know your journey as an artist. Before we close out and get your handles, yeah, thank you. 

0:28:07 - Kyabo
Thank you. I have nothing but gratitude, literally like no one has any reason to really go down with what I'm doing right now, like what we done with it, and the fact that there are people who really like it still blows my mind. Like I'm still getting comfortable with like answering questions and like about myself and my music, you know. So this is all pretty new to me stuff. But I'm really grateful like thank you so much. You're changing a life and I hope I can touch yours. 

0:28:32 - Nasiphi Zwane
Yeah well, my life is definitely touched. I'm definitely gonna keep listening to the music and I hope anyone else that's listening to this episode is also gonna go down the same path. So if anyone wants to reach out to you, work with you, send some love, send much. Whatever the case, what are the social media handles for them? 

0:28:49 - Kyabo
Oh, you can reach out to me on Twitter or Instagram. My Instagram username is ky6bo and on Twitter it's ky4bo. Just reach out there or like. Just email me at kybo Mgmt at gmailcom and I'll get back to you. 

0:29:08 - Nasiphi Zwane
Sweet, that is epic. And as for Sludge Underground, we are at Sludge Underground on Instagram, at sledge, or 3 1 on Twitter, Sludge Underground on Facebook and obviously you got our website, wwwsledgeandthegroundcom, and please do support the show. We've got beanies that we've released. I'm wearing one right now, so please do support. It's the best way that you can support Sludge Underground and keep us going.